Updating post from Reddit.
[England]
Got this message from my the agent:
Final ask from landlord .. he needs to move a bill to his name for legal reasons. He has asked if you are ok for him to put his name on the water bill and be sending you the bill amount monthly to add to the rent? (Not sure if you have a direct debit setup? But he would setup for the same amount)
Basically, he wants the water bill moved to his name, but I’d still pay him the amount every month on top of rent. Is this standard practice or should I be wary?
I also don't want to do this because I have a payment order set up for rent and can't be arsed to manually send it every month, on top of waiting for the bill amount from him. It also means I can't use that bill to prove address anymore which seems like a hassle
Massive red flag for a landlord that wants to pretend they are still resident in the property.
Cheeky little anonymous report to HMRC is in order I think :)
They won't do anything. I've reported my neighbour for being a rogue landlord numerous times and they've done absolutely nothing.
There’s no legitimate reason for this. Sounds like he needs to prove he lives at the property for some reason
Was the place his home previously. Does he have consent to let.
Any other odd things such as council tax or being on the voter list for him?
Yes I believe it was his home previously. I don't know about consent to let, but I do pay council tax and all other bills myself at the moment
Does he spend most of his time abroad? Could be to keep UK residential status for NHS or tax ect
That’s not how residency works
He wants this, but you have no benefit nor reason to do this.
Just respond “No Thankyou”
The legal reasons will be that he proves HE lives there. I expect his mortgage isn't correct for letting or he's trying to claim he doesn't live with his partner so she can claim benefits. Or it's about school cachements.
Id not do it.
Not normal and there is no good reason for him to do it.
Check your tenancy agreement, as it will usually mention who is responsible for each amenity. If it says you are responsible for water then simply say no, you are simply carrying out your responsibility under the agreement.
Yeah, the thing is the previous lease is expiring and I'm expecting to get a new one to renew next month
Remember you move automatically onto a rolling contract.
Yup this. You are within your rights to stay on the rolling tenancy if you wish under the current/previous terms.
Of course if you choose to stay on a rolling contract, the landlord can issue a Section 21. I guess you are the best judge as to whether he would choose to do so.
Check the terms on the new tenancy agreement to see if the water provision is changed.
My mum’s landlord tried doing this a few years ago. He was getting mortgage documents, passports, driving licenses, credit cards all sent to the address. My mum was a pushover, so I started returning it all to sender saying he doesn’t reside at the address. He got mad but I didn’t care, told him he couldn’t do it and won’t be doing it anymore. He then tried to kick my mum out because we received a letter from the mortgage company asking who lives there. Turns out he didn’t have a BTL mortgage. Don’t do it
I'm pretty sure this is what's happening here as well. He comes over every few weeks to pick up letters. I'd assumed it was temporary in the beginning but clearly I was wrong
Was there any blowback on your mum when you found out he wasn't allowed to rent? Did she end up getting evicted?
Yes she did. She called the bank and answered a few questions. The landlords wife came round a few days later absolutely fuming, the bank had cancelled their mortgage, and they were now liable for the amount in FULL, which they couldn’t afford. My mum took them to court for the full deposit back as they hadn’t protected it and they evicted her via a section 21. She wasn’t too fussed as she had the money to move now.
I’m not sure if the property was repossessed or what. But I know that my mum had let the bank know that we’d been there for 6 years, and another family had been there previously for 5 years so it had been rented out for a while.
OP, please ignore anyone suggesting you should bugger things up for the landlord, because you will also screw yourself. As seen here, where you are advised not to help your landlord alongside the dire consequences of taking their stupid advice. Do what's best for you.
It’s quite literally fraud.
It's quite literally eviction.
Better than being complicit in fraud?
I mean, you're also the guy in another thread advocating for 14 year old girls to be fucked, so I'd rather not try to debate someone quite so weird.
Not at all. I clearly stated that teenagers are going to have sex whether we tell them not to or not. Why would you not want to give your child a safe space and the tools to practice safe sex rather than them be having sex God knows where else? Grow up.
You got your own mother thrown out of her home. And you’re too dense to even add 2 + 2 together to work out how you’re responsible for causing that undue hardship. Talk about cut off your nose to spite your face.
Found the landlord!
He’s a landlord and therefore bad. Not like he’s trying to stop you getting yourself evicted or anything… stupid
I'm a landlord and i wouldn't have the balls to request something so stupid from a tenant.
The least he could do is offer to pay the water bill to keep his fraud on the low.
This is any combination of mortgage fraud, council licence breaches or benefit / council allowance fraud
‘Legal’ reason would be to prove he still lives there and more easily commit/continue to commit fraud.
Probably has a residential mortgage and no consent to let (mortgage fraud)
Nice of the agent to mention it’s to enable fraud. Don’t do it.
Explain that if he wants to assume complete responsibility for the water bill that’s fine But if he expects you to pay for the bill then it’s going to be in your name
Giving him money to pay the bill is an easy way to get screwed over big time
I agree with this, the landlord could include water in the rent as a fixed amount when the contract “renews”, e.g. rent is now previous + £50 extra pcm to include water, with the responsibility for water bills stated clearly in the updated AST. Then his fraud or otherwise is his own concern and OP won’t find themselves on the hook for an unpaid bill or constant requests from the landlord for different amounts each month if metered. Also the AST should have a different address/letting agents address for the landlord details, not the property address.
This could also help deflect any future claims from the landlord that the OP is a lodger (since landlord is presenting himself as still residing at the property) and lodgers can be evicted on short notice, considering the renters reform bill coming in potentially later in the year giving better protections against eviction to those under an AST OP should be wary of what their landlord is doing overall (I am not aware of enhanced rights for lodgers).
OP - try to keep all comms with the landlord in writing and always remind them in a friendly manner to update their correspondence address/get redirection since you are still receiving mail for them, as evidence for yourself.
Err, no. Not happening. No way in hell. Ask to explain what these "legal reasons" are.
everyone has pointed out good legal/illegal reasons but wouldn't another one be if if is still claiming to live there the OP would be a lodger not a tennent and therefore have far fewer legal rights when it comes to eviction and things like that?
Not unless the landlord actually lives there.
yeah, what I mean is that they are setting up a paper trail to make it look like they do by having bills in their name so receiving post at the address
I see what you're saying but it wouldn't really work. There's a signed contract, all other bills paid by tenant, there's an estate agency involved (even for EA this would be too much), etc. Basically it would be trivial to show to anyone that the tenant isn't a lodger.
fair enough, so its a case of if I am right the landlord is just REALLY bad at it :)
There’s no legal reason a landlord needs to be on a water bill!
I would go further and write to HMRC and the council on an annual basis to alert them to the fact that this individual might be attempting to evade income tax, capital gains tax, steal "benefits". Explain that the property is tenanted and how much you pay. If you think they are stealing..
However why would it just be the water bill and not also council tax and energy?
Behave. Don’t suggest such ridiculous things.
Read again.
There's not even a hint of reasonable suspicion of tax evasion.
> for legal reasons
What legal reason have they specified?
If they havent specified, refuse.
Its common in HMOs. Not in single / family occ
You sure he owns the property just wondering if he is trying to sublet without permission. I wonder if you moved in and didn't pay council tax and energy bills if the debt would end up as the landlords headache as they are trying to hide the fact they want to be listed at the property.
Surprised the estate agent is willing to go along with this.
Yes, you should be flagging this up with the agent.
According to OP, the request came via the agent. I'm surprised they're willing to be party to potential fraud, but maybe expecting estate agents to behave ethically is a bit naive.
To be fair, the number of inane and insane 'landlord requests' they seem to get would likely make them numb to it, so they just pass on the current file's 'ask' without thinking deeply on it at all.
Probably not the same thing but our water is private supply via 'the ( name) Estate'. Our agent is a Savills we pay water to Savills as part of our rent and water bill is in landlords name
The reason isn’t very legal I bet you.
He probably wants to pretend he lives there gobas to avoid capital gains tax when he sells.
Your landlord is planning to sell the property and claim that it's their primary residence in order to evade paying CGT, and/or they're going to claim that your rental income comes under the rent a room scheme allowances.
I suggest you tell the agency that you are not ok with this, and keep a copy of this request ready to forward to HMRC and the council's private rental enforcement team.
A lot of people don't want to change payee for Water because when you do you they often say you must install a smart meter.
You go from flat billing to pay per use.
Might be the reason and it could benefit you?
Don't get attached to this property, it's shady, so be ready to move out. Meanwhile, free water all you want now. Don't pay a bill that's not in your name.
e: Wait he sent this via agent? An established agent with a high street office, or like, someone with the same surname as the landlord?
Inform all your service suppliers that your landlord might try to change their supply into his name, and that they should not be doing this, because you haven't moved out and he doesn't live there.
Dodging capital gains by claiming he's resident at the property
Who is asking this btw? An estate agents? They should know better than this
Without more context, it is strange.
As a landlord, I provide all bills included or no bills included.
I don't change it mid tenancy.
Something smells strange here.
No, you are responsible for council tax and water bills. I'd wager he's not declared as a landlord, so probably hasn't informed his mortgage provider, doesn't have the correct insurance, and likely not paying tax.