Updating post from Reddit.
Hello Reddit
I have a tenant that is refusing access to my property that is managed by our EA, the issue seems to be a leak from the shower causing damp in the kitchen below
They had reported this issue to them towards the end of last year and the contractors went to over to fix it , but seems it has started happening again within the last 6 months
Now , this was only brought to my attention within the past 2 weeks after I accepted an offer and EA had promised the new tenants it will be resolved, but was not mentioned to me in any of the viewings or the property inspection a couple of months back by the agents prior to this
The tenant will be leaving within the next 15 days and has stated they refuse to let the contractors come back to complete the work for the shower leak between now and their final date
What are options here to get it done before the next 15 days for the new tenants ?
I can totally see why an outgoing tenant would not want disruption for work they will see no benefit from. You need a gap between tenants for repair / paint.
but it being an active leak whenever the shower is presumably used, ideally i’d like to get it sorted before the new tenants arrive
As the individual above said, this is why you should have a gap between tenancies.
It's unfortunate that it's likely causing more damage whilst you wait, you could potentially try and argue if the damage is extensive but you're probably better off chalking it up and moving on from the current tenants.
Hopefully you've got a gap between tenancies? If not then you may want to talk to the next tenants and work it out with them, maybe offer to put them in a hotel with storage or something for a week.
I don't think any landlord should try and aim for back to back tenancies anymore, the risk of tenants refusing to move out and you as a landlord being on the hook for the next tenants isn't worth the risk. Unfortunately agents don't seem to behave like that (when I last rented my property I wanted the agency to get deep cleans etc done but they set the next tenants to start the day after the previous ones urgh)
Some councils are such arseholes that they want to charge council tax right away even if a place is empty for a week, really doesn’t support LL to fix issues rushing them
The cost of doing business, a week of average council tax in Pendle (reportedly one of the highest rates in the UK) is 2500 / 52 so £48, so hardly worth worrying about vs. finding tenants don't leave and now you're on the hook for the incoming tenants who have a contract with you.
How would you suggest going about to challenge the damages ? Would I have much of a case if it wasn’t raised in the property inspection a few weeks before this ?
It's going to be hard
You'd have to prove it's damaged caused by negligence at a minimum I'd say.
You'll probably struggle to prove it e.g. if it would have caused damage when it broke (for whatever reason) can you prove how much worse it is due to not having access for 14 days.
Honestly I'd just wait till they move out and line contractors up for the day after.
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I'll stress again, if you or your agent have promised the next tenants can move in the same day or next day then you NEED to get ahead of this with the new tenants, explain the situation and work out a compromise or compensation, you unfortunately are 100% on the liability here so don't get upset if it feels you're on the back foot with the new tenants and having to pay out.
Hopefully you have landlord insurance that can cover appropriately
It is negligence, he neglected to leave a gap between tenancies to make sure the place was up to snuff. Make sure your estate agents are doing their job next time and treat it as a learning experience.
It’s annoying because i feel what’s the point of the property inspections if issues like this are not raised Makes me think what did they even inspect
I will communicate with them further on trying to arrange access
I thought you could go in if there was a risk of damage to property even if Tennant is being a cunt?
To my knowledge it must be significant damage and repeated attempts to amicably arrange access
Notice how you only mentioned what you would like?
You should end your sentence at 'sorted'.
Cheeky, well just saying if it’s a leak it should be addressed asap
i understand they are leaving soon but it’s an issue of potential damage
Im need some sort of retort as to why it wasn’t raised during the property inspection and only when the new tenants had an offer accepted
Little you can do but with dates it doesn’t seem like a flood as the tenant would want that fixed asap
This sounds REALLY like the flip side of this post
Almost certainly is. I saw that one earlier today too and that’s the first thing I thought when I scrolled onto this one
i was the OP of that post. its not me.
Ah damn fair enough
Have you tried offering the outgoing tenants a rent reduction proportional to the period the works will be carried out/how much of the property they will lose access to? Might be more cost effective than dealing with any extra damage after they’ve moved out plus having to potentially find alternative temp accommodation for incoming tenants.
Have you got a court date for the current tenants leaving or did they give notice?
they gave notice that they will be leaving at the end of the tenancy
Is that in writing or verbal? As you may have more problems than the leak if it isn’t. Realistically you could declare it an emergency and gain entry assuming they haven’t changed the locks but it would be tenuous at best.
A slow leak which causes damage of the course of several months is certainly not an emergency. Most likely the tenants would be very upset about their landlord forcing entry without permission and a contractor would probably refuse the work. This wouldn't end well for OP
in writing , they have to my knowledge agreed tenancy for a new property and from the most recent viewings have began moving stuff out already
I want to go the emergency route, but they queried it by saying why was it not raised as an emergency during the last property inspection and only when an offer had been accepted for the new tenants
And that would be reasonable as it’s at best intermittent (I.e when they are using the shower)
Hmm so you don’t think I have any case to get it done before they move out ?
Maybe. It would be unlawful entry if they pressed it If you didn’t ask permission as given you or they haven’t declared it an emergency before now hard to think you could at this point
Traditionally your legal remedy is an access injunction. However you have no chance of getting that through court in 15 days.
Unless the leak is gushing, or leaking into electrical sockets/fuse board your stuck waiting for them to leave
Can i not just force emergency access to prevent property damage ?
It’s not an emergency unless there is a life threatening potential.
A slow water leak causing damage to walls is not an emergency.
There would need to be a credible leak including electrics or a substantial leak that would cause immediate and potentially harmful damage to a person.
They probably don't want your cowboy contractors getting in the way while they're busy packing their stuff up. Offer them a 2 week rent reduction for the hassle and they might be more accommodating.
A slow leak can cause serious structural damage over time, particularly to floor joists, which can cost tens of thousands of pounds to repair. More urgently, water ingress can lead to the collapse of the ceiling below, posing a real risk of injury or even death to anyone in the vicinity when it gives way.
This is not a minor issue; it’s a serious matter that requires immediate attention. I strongly advise you to take legal steps to gain access to the property in question so the leak can be identified and resolved without further delay.
You may be able to apply for an injunction or access order under property law, especially if the other party is being uncooperative. These orders can compel access for urgent repair works that are necessary to prevent further damage.
Please speak to a qualified solicitor immediately. This is not the kind of situation where informal advice from Reddit can replace proper legal guidance.
If there's ongoing additional damage, you may be able to persuade the tenant to allow access, by threatening to withhold part of their deposit, to cover and additional damage between now and their departure, though following through/actually trying to do that would probably be a waste of time.
if the deposit is protected it would be nearly impossible to prove how much worse it is due to not having access for 14 days
damn, thought as much.
They will just counter by asking why it wasn’t fixed correctly the first time around. If the leak had been fixed properly then there would be no damage. This may be on op’s plumber for not fixing it first time around.
why would it be a waste of time ? sounds reasonable to me
The tenants will likely dispute it and the deposit protection scheme will not accept it without evidence that the damage was caused due to an unreasonable delay by the tenants. The delay may not be unreasonable as they are in the process of moving house and it's likely the damage has been caused over the course of several months
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But their main push back is why was it not raised as an emergency during the inspection and only when new tenants had their offer accepted
Indeed, it was not identified as an emergency in a recent inspection and it is a recurring issue that previously had to be attended to. There is no way this constitutes an emergency
I had a management company that didn't deal with a leak effectively for 6 months and it ended up costing me 10k for a new kitchen and me sacking the management company.
Any ingress of water is an emergency as it can and does cause structural damage to the fabric of the building and or materials used in the building.
The agency are not the owners of the property so they couldn't give a rats arse but I bet the op as the owner damn well does.
I don't care I was downvoted, it is an emergency and I know first hand how damaging a leak can be.
hmm , would this still apply in my scenario, they reported the leak initially months back and had work done , would any tribunal accept escalation to emergency and forcing entry over asking for a week extension
i feel as if it not being reported by the EA during the inspection last month , or during any of the viewings until the most recent offer may work against me
the contractor after the initial assessment also annoyingly said it was fine to the tenants that it could wait till they leave but i’d want it done sooner
You can't force entry and tenant could change locks to stop your entry anyway if they chose to.
In my case the estate agent informed me of a leak on three separate occasions and I authorised them each time to send in a plumber and each time the agent sent one that did sweet FA and the leaks continued.
6 months after I went to do gardening and the poor tenants were using their own clothes to slow down leaks in the kitchen.
Ofcourse I was totally shocked that my agent hadn't sent in competent trades and I had all leaks fixed in 24 hours. The kitchen units had all swelled and it needed a new kitchen because of the incompetence of my management company.
Now I self manage all properties and it's so much less stressful doing so. I have really nice tenants that appreciate i will respond quickly, take action as soon as possible and keep them informed throughout.
Truth is in your situation a few weeks isn't going to change too much so maybe explain to your tenant that you wasn't aware of the agency response and ask their permission to fix sooner.
so i’m basically at the mercy of the tenants ? that seems wholly unfair
Well, the damage will already have been done as it seems that whatever fix was done 6 months ago did not work, is it likely to get much worse in 2 weeks? No, you'd have to hire the same contractor for the same job at probably the exact same cost of you do the work now or in 2 weeks. In fact, it may be cheaper later as short notice work is more expensive
During the tenancy the tenants "own" the property in every way that matters. They have exclusive access to it, you have none. You have no more right to enter their home than they have to enter your home. You should not be surprised by this it's the fundamental principle of renting a property.
well of course but in regards to repairs , it’s my understanding they still need to be accommodating for anything such as leaks or damage