Updating post from Reddit.
Hi All,
I’m just writing for some advice on how to deal with a potential problematic situation for me. So I’ve sold what used to be our main home which is currently tenanted and bought another place. Everything so far has been quite smooth and at the point of exchanging contracts. The tenants have known of our intention to sell since May and were served notice at the in June. Their tenancy is due to expire in August in any case.
The tenants have not yet found a place and I’m getting really nervous. The last thing I want is the sale to fall through due to this but the letting agent has stated they got the impression the tenants haven’t been seriously looking.
Is there any options I have to help them accelerate their search?
Help them find somewhere suitable, offer to pay the moving cost. Loosing your home is tough
The letting agent is helping them find something. The concerning thing is they haven’t reached out to her to assist until she called them and asked how they were getting on with their move.
The letting agent is also the agent selling the property so it’s also in their interest to ensure the sale goes through.
So is the chain dependent on you vacating your previous house, which is dependent on you moving into a currently occupied house?
If so you could risk losing that house sale over the tenants staying.
It’s a particularly difficult part of a tenancy for landlords (and often more difficult for tenants), so remember you have options like cash for keys, and it’s usually worse to lose a sale vs going into your own rental accommodation for a bit.
I'm not particularly having a go at OP here but how are there so many posts on here, week after week, of LLs who have lined up either new tenants or sales without having vacant possession first?
Is there really an enormous community of complacent amateur LLs who don't know how s.21 works and how long the courts take?
Yes. They get gifted their property either by parents handing down cash to allow them to quickly get in the housing market or by parents supporting them so heavily they can save for the deposit quick. This means they never appreciate the struggle of most renters they see the big profits for their property in comparison to other investments. This means you have huge swathes of inexperienced, self centred and misguided landlords out for profit rather than the responsibility of providing for others.
Agree partly but bold of you to think more than 10% of landlords are actually interested in providing good quality housing or providing a service. Almost all are in it for an investment, whether that’s hands on or hands off.
And here lies the heart of the issue
I have been a tenant and I’ve honoured whatever dates that I’ve been given if a landlord has wanted to possess the property for whatever reason. Just as there is a basic expectation that people follow the law of the land they reside in, I’ve had the basic expectation that tenants honour their requirement to vacate a property by a certain date. I understand there may be cases where this may not happen but was hoping this would be the minority and not the majority
Aside from your touching faith in humanity, many tenants faced with another deposit, guarantor requirement, removals costs, and the market as it is simply CANNOT move.
>I’ve had the basic expectation that tenants honour their requirement to vacate a property by a certain date
You've imagined this requirement. You can express whatever preference you like to a tenant, by "the law of the land" they can stay until either they decide to leave or a court removes them.
If they can't find anything before your date they end up homeless. Why would they put your convenience above them having shelter?
Money usually speeds them along.
If you haven't already issued a S21 and prepared to evict them once their fixed term expires then you are probably going to breach your completion date.
Ask them how much to surrender the property on thr date you need.
Thanks for the response. A section 21 was issued at the end of June. So they have until end of August to find something.
I was considering throwing money at them and the agent is showing them a property she has coming on the market before it’s actually on the market so they have first refusal.
But will perhaps wait until first week of August before offering them £2k to pack up and get going
August isn't when a tenant has to be out it's just the s21 notice period. You will probably find tenants will stay on if they can't find anything meaning you then need to apply to the courts to issue a possession order. This sets a date to be out and if not again a tenant can outstay this. You then have to apply for bailiffs to evict. So all in this could be a few more months after your August.
This is what I’m worried about. If this happens, will I be able to sue the tenants for any shortfall in sales price and other aspects that have impacted the sales process?
Nope as it was your choice to risk it being tenanted whilst accepting a sale. Landlords really should be making sure properties are vacant before selling or selling to a cash buyer landlord that doesn't mind tenants being in place.
No you have no claim against the tenant other than their eviction costs and those are not guarenteed
Greedy landlord trying to get as much rent out of their tenants before they boot them out strikes again. You took a risk and it looks to have backfired
They're not trying to get as much rent out of the tenant. The tenant wants to stay by the looks of it.
So you think it's ok for a tenant to stay in a property that they don't own beyond the date their agreement to stay there has ended?
Do you normally go around breaching contracts when you feel like it? I doubt you'd get away with it if you tried to.
Their agreement to stay hasn't ended. Their fixed term expires in August, at which point (if it's an AST) it will become a rolling one. All that's happened is that the LL has served an S21,which is just a notice saying they want them to leave by a certain date, after which they may apply for a possession order via the courts.
I just don't understand the mentality of someone who has been asked to leave by a certain date, has known all along the date their contract is ending and just thinks, I'll ignore all that and do exactly as I please and decide to stay in a property that doesn't belong to them.
Perhaps I'm old fashioned but to me it wouldn't be right to stay in someone else's property knowing they wanted it back. But people don't seem to care about right and wrong these days.
Ever considered that because of the cost of living and the excessive rise in rents means the market they could afford to rent in has now gone as their salary would not have increased alongside these rises. Even in ideal circumstances it’s difficult to find somewhere new juggling kids, work, price gouging agents in a few months, so the deadline is irrelevant if the market isn’t conducive.
You’re always thinking of your position, typical landlord .
The cost of living affects everyone.
Have you ever considered that rents have gone up precisely because the cost of living has gone up? Mortgage rates from 0% to 5%, cost of insurance, repairs, all the ridiculous regulations the government keep imposing all cost money.
Do you think landlords should operate at a loss? Why would they?
If the margin is so low it's not worth the bother then they'll sell and then where will the tenant live?
Why don't you blame the government for not building enough houses and driving out landlords which only makes a bad problem worse and adds more upward pressure on rents.
Why don't you blame companies for paying such low wages?
It's sad how you can't see the bigger picture and instead fall for the government propaganda that the landlords are the bad guys and thus distracting you from their own failings.
I'll be selling my property and I feel very sorry for the tenants as we charge below market rate but when they move out they'll have to pay probably 10% higher judging by market rates in the same area.
It affects everyone, yes. Buy you will ALWAYS have an appreciating asset, in effect this means that you are more capable (long term) to absorb or operate at a loss because in time you will regain this.
However a renter does not have the same return of investment, we can’t even use the fact that we have made above mortgage payments to prove we are responsible fiscally.
As for the government, well I wonder what demographic supported the tories for 14 years as they ripped the heart out of our country, do you think it was statistically renters supporting them? I think not, and as for the current chump in no10, he’s just a different flavour of Tory, full of words lacking in any action to solve this crisis. Especially considering the home owners lobby threatened the PM with mass sell offs if they enacted the new renters rights reforms.
You only have yourselves to blame, we can’t even use only hope it destroys the companies economy as that will be the only thing to stop this situation
An appreciating asset doesn't equate to cashflow today.
If the mortgage is £500pm that's what you have to pay the bank every month. You can't say I'll pay £400 and make up the difference in x years time when the value of the property has gone up and I've sold it.
I have no idea whether renters voted for the Tories.
Well the RRB is being enacted and there is a mass sell off of properties and many tenants will probably be like mine facing either massive rent hikes or homelessness.
If the RRB hadn't come in I wouldn't be selling.
You need to blame the government for not building and companies for low wages.
No, but maybe it’s proof that if it’s a cash flow issue it proves a lack of long term planning by landlords. Why have you not planned for this?
Why haven’t you put aside some cash to cover the short term changes, because you’re living the high life during good times and when they end you push the problem away from you.
As for RRB one of the main reasons for changing it to support the renter is for example because unscrupulous landlords using s21 to remove people who complain for instance about maintenance.
You’ve effectively once again only got yourself to blame for the changes
I would like to say you took a great risk to rely on your tenant to leave when needed.
I understand the need to get rent for as long as possible, but is the risk worth it.
When I bought a flat recently, I put a lot of pressure on the seller to evict the tenant as soon as possible.
I understand. This was in the advice of the agent.. The TA was due to expire in August in any case. So yes in a bit of a pickle now but was fully expecting the tenant to move out by the due date
Tenancys don't expire at the end of the fixed period they just change to a rolling one
You served the s21 all it is really is saying please move out at this date we would like it back, they don't actually have to leave at that point The only ones able to brake the contract is the Tennant or a court
If they don't freely go you can offer money and help to move ie pay their costs/ new deposit if you really want it back ASAP or pay the court costs and that will be a long process
Yes that will be a long process. But wouldn’t it be in both our interests to ensure that the tenant leaves on time as it doesn’t help anyone and I will be looking at costs plus any other damages.
I can offer some financial incentives to move out on time to minimise risks. Effectively it’ll be a stick or carrot approach. Stick being the court
>But wouldn’t it be in both our interests to ensure that the tenant leaves on time
It's definitely in yours but not necessarily the tenants, especially if they have nowhere to go or are faced with having to scrape together another deposit.
Additionally, it will only be costs that you could recuperate. No damages as selling the property with the tenant still in situ was your choice.
You really have no idea of the circumstances so you just to assume that it’s a greedy landlord. In case you missed it, it’s selling our main home which was in rent due to a relocation. And we are selling the place to buy a main family home. So get off your f’in high horse
What I’m reading is:
You decided to become a landlord without understanding the law and now it may come to bite you
Your reading is wrong. The law was very different 10 years ago. And it does change
This was the risk you took when you decided to use the asset to obtain the rental income rather than leaving it empty.
Realistically you might get them out by this time next year.
As they aren’t seriously looking, it sounds like they may be going for a council house. This will mean possession order and bailiffs will be needed. Takes about a year and they can raise all sorts of obstacles.
I doubt £2k would tempt them at all. A friend recently offered 10k and still has no idea if they will actually go.
You may be lucky and they leave but I wouldn’t plan for it.
I'd ask them what the problem is - availability of somewhere suitable, raising the deposit, moving costs etc. You may be able to grease the wheels with a spot of cash and make it easier all round.
Did you issue a correct S21 on day you accepted the buyers offer?