Updating post from Reddit.
Lodger has told me she doesn't plan on paying anymore rent. I have told her to be out tomorrow. My plan is to remove her belongings immediately tomorrow and have the locks changed. Rolling monthly informal agreement. Is this okay?
The guidelines say that you should give the lodger one payment periods notice but they’re only guidelines rather than laws.
You can do what you propose.
A lodger is an excluded tenant. This means that they have none of the protections of the landlord and tenant act. They essentially have no more rights than any random guest in your property.
The only thing I would add to this is that they need to be given a reasonable length of time to collect their belongings as just dumping them on the doorstep could cause problems
Morally yes, legally no because the torte rules don’t apply.
Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 begs to differ
Unlikely to hold up if you argue your position correctly
I'm a live in landlord, and always mystified as to why some people seem to get an absolute hard on over the idea of chucking a lodger out with no notice.
You conveniently leave out why the lodger has said she's not going to pay rent and what she's said about moving out - which is presumably her plan anyway.
Under normal circumstances, you need to give the lodger reasonable notice. Reasonable notice is normally equivalent to one rent period i.e. if they pay rent monthly, it's a one month notice period.
In this case, give her two weeks notice and deduct the rent from her deposit. Your current proposal involves you making a great deal of work for yourself and making her homeless, to no real advantage - you're not going to have a new lodger in the next day.
Beware that when it comes to her belongings, you will be an involuntary bailee under the Torts (Interference With Goods) Act 1977. You must keep her belongings safe and dry, and give her a reasonable deadline (e.g. a month) by which to retrieve them. If you don't, she can take you to court for the value of the goods.
Nothing short of violence, directed at me or the dog, could persuade me to evict a lodger with no notice.
Remember, karma is a bitch.
More context from OP here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/uklandlords/comments/1lpfn3n/lodger_freakout_over_deposit/
Landlord sounds like a piece of work... I've often helped out a lodger when they move out, cashflow can be an absolute bitch for them. When they are owed a deposit (that may or may not be returned if the LL doesn't feel like it), have to pay a new deposit and have to pay 1+month in advance, they may not have that much cash on hand.
I get the feeling the OP isn’t living at the house and is living else where
On another post she has said its a Tiny 1 bed house and she’s sleeping in the box room which I find very hard to believe
It this is the case the OP had better hope that the lodger doesn’t know her rights with regards to the landlord actually having to live there full time in order for it to be a landlord / lodger agreement
If she is living there what’s stopping her from checking the room and giving the lodger her money at the same time
That would be the normal process if you lived in your house with a lodger and they were leaving Check nothings been damaged and give them back there money
She’s also said the lodger ran up a 1k BG bill by using the shower for an hour a night which …
I think she has no intention of giving her the money back and the lodger knows this which is why she is refusing to pay rent
Edit on previous posts the lodger lives in the kitchen / lounge area and it’s a one bed 30 square meter house
OP is just a scummy live in landlord
the lodger needs to go on Shelter.org.uk and find the emergency helpline. Free lawyers for anyone going through wrongful evictions. Keeps thousands of households in their homes yearly!
Oh not this person from mumsnet, super weird
If you feel they are a threat to you or your belongings, then yes. It's usual to give them notice equal to at least the payment period.
If they pay rent in advance, you may owe them the remainder.
Morally, making someone homeless with one day's notice is pretty cruel without justification
“justification” is the lodger saying not gonna pay. Not good enough for you? Op is not running a charity shop.
I'm not gonna pay, is not a physical threat. The landlord is not in danger. So it doesn't apply, if it did, you can use reasonable force to remove them, if it escalates you contact the police to remove an aggrievated tresspasser and for preventing a breach of the peace.
It's a civil issue. If you evict without notice, the lodger can sue for damages due to breach of contract. Such as the coat of alternative accomodation for their notice period. Will they sue, probably not, but they can, and they might succeed.
If they've already paid for July then it's not a good reason to kick them out.
Agreed, if there is a deposit to cover for damages, treat it as a notice. If there is no deposit , go 50/50. After 2 weeks, send her on her way and refund 2 weeks of rent minus damages.
Not really enough info to answer this accurately but effectively yes.
The lack of contract won’t magically mean the lodger has no rights but at the same time if you feel you’re in danger or under threat then absolutely you can move her out quickly. Similarly the law doesn’t stipulate how much notice they can get and if they’re being unreasonable or threatening then you can interpret notice as being quite tight. It’s normally ‘reasonable notice’ with an indication of about a payment period’s time but obvs if they’re just refusing to pay then you have a lot of leeway.
You don’t make it clear why they’ve suddenly decided not to pay any rent, that’s a bit unusual. A lot of what will determine reasonableness of kicking her out will depend on how much (if any) rent she owes you and what is going on.
Yes, if she doesn’t have a contract or deposit she doesn’t have a leg to stand on. If it was a tenant of course you’d have to evict them which would take 2 months at least
Yes, you can just evict a lodger, it’s different from a AST. No rights.
They do have some right not zero rights. Certainly witn regard to their belongings
I would, change the locks and prevent her entry. She's a squatter.
Put her stuff in storage and give her the key too (many places are digital so just give a code) pay one month in cash, so it can't roll over... She doesn't need access to your house again then for her stuff
You are a true nightmare She is just worried about u not repaying the bond, probably because u said the place would need to be ‘immaculate’ for this to happen Seriously …
Be prepared for her to make up stories about threats etc so film everything even removing her goods in case she said she had a few gold bars etc that have gone missing , she sounds like she belongs on the Chatsworth estate
Why has she said she won't pay rent? When does this payment period end?
If she is paid up til next Monday for example then you should not evict her until next Tuesday.
You normally need to give notice of one rent period's worth, or, whatever is in the contract.
You certainly can't evict them if they've already paid rent for the period. Is the rent paid in arrears or in advance? Is there a deposit? And are you sure they're a lodger, with or without enhanced protections(?)
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You can legally do it. Is it moral? I'd say it depends. If a lodger said to me "I'm not going to pay you any rent ever again" I definitely would do the same and have no qualms about it.
Think there's a lot of missing information in this post. Why isn't the "lodger" paying rent? Are they classified as a lodger? Hard to give advice without full facts.
OP has conveniently left out vital information. Why isn't the lodger going to pay? Judging by his other posts, he's a scummy landlord.
The lodger has already paid for July. OP doesn't need to make her immediately homeless. But he's wants to do it anyway.
He would need to keep the lodger's belongings safe and dry anyway. Or he could be taken to court.
You can’t just evict a lodger immediately without giving proper notice, even with an informal agreement. Under UK law, specifically the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, lodgers (even those on a rolling informal arrangement) are still entitled to “reasonable notice.” That’s usually equal to their rent period, so if she pays monthly, that’s 28 days.
Changing the locks or removing her belongings without that notice could legally be seen as unlawful eviction or harassment, which can lead to civil claims or even criminal charges in some cases.
Yes, lodgers have fewer rights than tenants. They’re considered excluded occupiers, but that doesn’t mean you can treat them like guests or just kick them out the next day. Once someone’s been living in your home, they have rights under the law.
You’re well within your rights to end the arrangement, but you have to do it properly. Give her written notice and let that notice run out. If she’s still there after that, then you can change the locks as long as she’s already moved out or clearly refuses to.
Skipping that process could land you in serious trouble. It's not worth the risk.
Suggest actually reading the Act you're speaking about, specifically section 3A(2).
Section 3A(2) just says you don’t need a court order for lodgers it doesn’t give you the right to chuck them out with no notice. You still have to give reasonable notice, or it can be classed as unlawful eviction.
Section 3A(2) says that lodgers are specifically excluded from protection under the Act. The language is very clear.
Read the other posts in this thread, read the guidance on the Shelter website, read the guidance on the Citizens Advice website. Lodgers simply don't have any meaningful legal protection against eviction, OP can give 24hrs "notice" and change the locks. I wouldn't, it sounds like you wouldn't, but they can.
Section 3A(2) excludes lodgers from needing a court order, it doesn’t exclude them from all protections. You still can’t use force or evict without giving reasonable notice. That’s backed by Shelter, CAB, and the actual Section 5(1A) offence under the same Act.
24 hours might be common, but it’s not a legal free-for-all. If OP removes belongings or locks her out without fair warning, they risk a civil claim or even police involvement.
5(1B)(b) very clearly tells you that 5(1A) doesn't apply to excluded licences, and 8(4) tells you that an "excluded licence" is as defined in 3A.
Of course you can't use throw belongings out on the street or use force, but that wasn't your argument. Your argument was that the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 applies to lodgers. It doesn't.
There might be some separate common-law expectation of giving a reasonable amount of notice to the lodger, but that's a question for a lawyer.
This is illegal
NO! Do a bit of research. It absolutely isn't! Or are you the scummy lodger refusing to pay rent???
Go fail your test again bro
Are you ok??? 🤦♀️🤣🤣
If she has a rolling contract then no you cannot. If she is a lodger sharing facilities with you and entrance and no lock on her door then you cannot ask her to leave.
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if you have nothing to add why comment?
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There isn’t a process that needs to be followed for an excluded tenant. I really hope you’re not a landlord because your comment displays a lack of knowledge of the landlord and tenant act.
I think you really need to brush up on the law mate. This is a lodger not a tenant.
By law you need one rental period notice depending on the way shes paying:
Weekly = 1 week notice Bi-weekly = 2 weeks notice Monthly = 1 month notice
Following this, you can simply change the locks, no needs to go to court.
If you evict her without proper notice, it's an illegal eviction, and would fall under Protection from Eviction Act 1977 if intimidation or violence was used.
If your only evidence verbal claim she'd not be paying and you decide to evict her tomorrow, good luck to you :)
Lodgers are not included in Protection from Eviction Act 1977. Illegal eviction does not apply.
It's accepted in case law, not actual laws/legislation, that reasonable notice is given. This is because although their is no tenancy agreement, there is a contract. Kicking out without notice, would be a breachwof contract. Reasonable notice is defined as 1 rental period, which could be weekly, monthly, etc.
If lodgers do not leave, you can change the locks, known as peaceful eviction when they are out the house. You can also use reasonable force if necessary.
Which law is it that requires one rental period (as opposed to reasonable notice) for a lodger?
No you can't, that lodger was paying rent
But once they stop paying rent they can't stay.
You sound like an absolute twat TBH. It seems the lodger knows her rights and I hope she takes you for all you're worth
What rights? Lodgers do not have the right to not pay and not be evicted immediately. You can't be violent, you can smash their things up, but you absolutely can change the locks on them and there is nothing they can do about it.
You sound like an absolute twat TBH.