Updating post from Reddit.
An update to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/uklandlords/s/wHtRbGg79o
Firstly, thank you to everyone who replied to my first post with advice, their own experiences and support! It helped a lot, made me more confident that I was doing the correct thing, and not to take their threats/bluffs seriously.
As a new landlord, that really was invaluable!
So, I went in on Monday to see what could be done and place some preliminary mouse traps before pest control can get in. Tenant was 10 minutes late, jovially answering the phone saying they were just around the corner. Silly little games 🤷♂️
While waiting for them, their two dogs (only one was written into the contract and agreed upon by myself) are jumping on the front window blinds, probably damaging them.
I decided to look into the front coal cellar, and lo and behold there’s old rubbish bags in there, which have been opened probably by mice.
When they arrive, the front door wasn’t locked. Going into the property, no signs of gnawing as they claimed, walk through the property giving it a quick once over, some dog food on the floor, go into the garden which is covered in old dog poo, flowerbeds dug up by I think the dogs. Tenant says they’d leave the garden doors open.
A couple of mouse droppings under the sink, definitely not what I’d consider an infestation.
The entire time the tenant is trying to manipulate me, giving me a sob story while saying all the neighbours are talking behind my back about how much they hate me?
They first say they only recently noticed droppings, then it was two months ago, then it was when they first moved in? I asked why they didn’t notify me immediately, and they said they weren’t required to know anything about mice, and that their cleaner hadn’t told them. This has also apparently been such an issue the entire time they feel they’re entitled to all rent paid previously?!
Anyway, put the mouse traps in and leave. In 20 minutes I’d noticed about 6 breaches of the contract, with the dog poo and old rubbish bags sticking out to me as what could have attracted the mice in the first place.
Prior to this, I’d made an agreement with the tenant they would be able to move out early, and only pay the cost of finding new tenants, which I thought was fair as it would save them thousands in rent while I find tenants, and other losses I’d incur by surrendering the tenancy early.
They messaged me saying they’d let me off if I just let them leave without any early termination fees.
So, I fell back on the contract, cited breaches I’d noticed in the short visit that seem to be directly responsible for the mice, and other general breaches.
Went from having to pay about £1,200 to around £4k when you include rent before finding a new tenant, all other fees for surrendering the tenancy, and pest control visits.
Their response was just an insulting message, and saying they want me to contact them only through the estate agents from now on.
I’m not sure where I stand on this point, as I managed the property myself, and the estate agents were only involved in finding the tenant. I feel like speaking through the estate agents would just make things more convoluted, and they didn’t give me a reason why they don’t want me to contact them directly. I’ve been nothing but professional in person and via messages. Also brought someone to the visit with me in case they tried to claim I did anything untoward.
Would messaging them directly cause me any issues? Should I just speak through the estate agents?
Thanks again and sorry for the rant!
I would do anything in my power to get them out of the house I own. These people sound awful.
Leaving tomorrow. Changing the locks asap!
You got lucky if they actually leave.
Also don't use those agents. Next up. Sign up with nrla. Use their advice line to help you onboard tenants.
Make sure you get a notice of surrender
I’ve saved all the messages we discussed leaving early and dates.
You have a contractual relationship with them and are entitled to continue to contact them about matters relating to it.
They do not have the right to require you to use an agent.
They are likely to make a harassment complaint of course, so make and keep copies of all communication. Continue to make sure that you are not exposed to malicious allegations.
Bum every single penny out of the scum that you can.
Thanks, I didn’t think they could request that.
They’re leaving tomorrow, changing the locks asap and will bill them for everything! Looks like this will exceed the deposit so I imagine it’ll have to go to small claims eventually though which sounds like a bit of a pain.
Yeah and don't be super-optimistic about ever seeing any of that.
Yeah, seems like a real hassle tbh. Not the end of the world if I never get the excess though.
But if you do get them a CCJ it stops others being burnt by them.
Just like bad landlords ruin landlords reputation, bad tenants ruin tenants reputation and make landlords cautious.
It’s a good lesson for me if nothing else.
Personally after experiencing a similar situation several years ago with a tenant trying to hide keeping an indoor cat which was against the lease conditions, I'd say if you can sort the mess/damage with the deposit, I would just bite the bullet.
Going to SCC will just take up valuable energy and time you need to get the flat ready to re-let. They got an 'out', so I'd end things for your mental health's sake when they are out the door and you have changed the locks. I assume you took photos of the rubbish in the coal store and other damage/mess in the garden? The window blinds, scrabble marks from the dogs on walls or woodwork? Just in case they decide to contest you keeping he deposit
We found out about the cat when a plumber mentioned the stink from the unchanged litterbox in the bathroom where he had to work. Poor kitty, poor plumber!
Yes, photos of everything. I’ll go in tomorrow for a full check after they’ve moved out.
As far as SCC, I’m undecided but you have some good points. I’ll see what happens and decide later.
Good luck. I didn't mean to compare your problem to our unauthorised cat, but she did not understand that taking an outdoor cat and confining it indoors when it was not used to it was what caused damage.
Ripped curtains, cat piss on carpets, scratch marks on various walls that were its favourite scratching posts. It was more than the deposit to re-carpet. Also had to mend walls, repaint, fumigate, and buy new window dressings. Thankfully it was not a large flat, and other than the carpet, we did the rest of the work ourselves.
Sounds like a huge pain in the backside.
Thanks for the advice, I asked for it, and while not the exact same there are parallels!
Assess before you go to the SCC. Do they have the funds to pay? If they own nothing / don’t work then there’s no point. It’ll take you time, ££ and stress. Even if they do work it’s a long job to get payment from their earnings.
But if they do work eventually you may get your ££ back even if it is a small amount per month.
I’m so sorry you’ve had this experience - better luck next time.
This is where being practical is your friend.
All too often people focus on the legal situation (be it the landlord or the tenant) and completely miss the wider picture.
If you have a problematic tenant and they offer to leave with minimal fuss then that is the way to go. No ifs and no maybes. The legal costs / lost rent / potential damages will always swamp getting the situation back into your control.
Hope they stick to their word and good luck.
Ugh, people like this disgust me. Living in filth, non stop lies, passing the blame and forcing those poor animals into those conditions.
> giving me a sob story while saying all the neighbours are talking behind my back about how much they hate me?
I can guarantee you, that it's the tenant the neighbors hate. The only reason the neighbors would have beef with you is that you have made them live next to this guy.
Yeah, just infantile behaviour.
Yeah best you get rid of clearly poor tenants
Small claims court isn't difficult. But it's only worth it if they have jobs and you can get an attachment of earnings order.
They’ve got a high income according to their reference, so that part shouldn’t be an issue hopefully!
I'd go for it in that case, provided their income details are genuine which is worth checking.
Yes, if they are false how would that play out do you think?
It sounds like fraud and potentially make the estate agents who carried out the reference liable?
Not sure about fraud etc. I just meant in terms of the chances of enforcing a CCJ and ensuring you get what's owed.
Sadly good luck getting anything out of the estate agent.
Can’t expect them to stand by their work…
Get rid, they’re scum
The agent has nothing to do with it or them once they’ve found them for you. So no, the agent won’t be contacting them and you will. But I would just cut your losses, can’t help but think they are going to stop paying imminently if it doesn’t go their way. My offer would be to leave early (in writing) at no cost to them excluding anything that needs to be kept out of the deposit for damage and any damage exceeding the deposit also to be paid or taken to small claims. But yeah, just get rid as soon as, don’t hold out for them paying until you find a new tenant, just get rid.
Yes, they’re leaving tomorrow, date set in writing. Got five weeks deposit so that will cover about 70% of all costs hopefully.
Yet another lesson why not to use an agent!
Agents do not have a place in the rental system.
It’s early days, but this scum agent could possibly have cost you thousands if the next few days don’t go in your favour.
Please, please, please, stop using agents!
Only worth it if it's fully managed then, they have to deal with everything, sometimes it's worth it for the reduced stress, ideally if a local agent they should know who the scum bags are from previous dealings. My agent even warned me about an undesirable Tennant, and if I was in no rush to rentz I would be better off waiting for a better Tenant, also never take anyone with pets.
I don’t normally care for landlords but surely pest control is the tenant responsibility? If it’s mice, I’d say they are to blame.
I’d be to embarrassed to tell my landlord we had mice and I’d deal with it.
Obviously you have a conscience.
If they are not managing your property after finding the tenants, then they're out of the picture. You have your contract, their violations, keep their deposit and give them the 30 days (standard usually). Before renters "rights" comes in.
I have often had poor landlords, while being exemplary tenant. You sounds lovely and your current tenant doesn't deserve renting at yours. Nothing to fear from their threat, you are acting and its likely the tenant has something to see with the mice.