Updating post from Reddit.
Throwaway account for obvious reasons.
I have been subletting a house in London for a few years. I maintain a room in the property and I had 3 lodgers in the 3 other rooms. I didn't protect any of the deposits because I live in the property, it's where my mail gets delivered etc.
One of my lodgers moved out at the end of May and I wanted to deduct some of his deposit for cleaning. He has come back to my and said that he wants to contest through DPS.
This is where I feel like I have messed up. The contract we signed says he has exclusive possession of the room and states that his deposit would be protected. I also told him I'd protect it a couple of times via WhatsApp but honestly I just forgot to do it.
In the last few months I've been spending more and more time at my girlfriend's place. In fact, most days I stay there instead of the sublet house. I do still receive my mail at the sublet house. I probably spent 3-4 nights a the sublet house in May total.
Another area I think I messed up in is that around mid may I moved all of my work equipment (a lot of stuff!) to my girlfriend's house. This took several trips in my car. The tenant has captured all of this on CCTV.
He's stating that he signed an agreement that states he is a tenant and because I vacated the property during his tenancy there's no way he could be considered a lodger.
To make matters worse I got married this last weekend and somehow he found out about it. He's saying that this is further proof I vacated the day I moved my stuff over to hers.
I feel like I'm in big trouble and I think he might have me over a barrel. Do I have any defence?
You have fucked up in multiple ways. Seeing as it's clearly no longer your main residence, they are not lodgers they are tenants.
Return the deposit in full to the tenant and pray he does not try to take you to court for up to three times the amount of the deposit.
This
I’d highly recommend just giving the deposit back in full. As the contract states what it states, you could be liable for 3X the deposit if it goes to court.
He’s not “trying to manipulate the situation” he’s asserting his legal rights. Tread carefully.
Right but he was a lodger when he moved in. I just made a mistake by giving him an AST contract? An AST can't be valid if you're a resident landlord, I thought?
Stop trying to have your cake and eat it.
He was never a lodger if you gave him an AST.
I don't think that's true though. Shelter says you're always a lodger if you live with your landlord
But it’s glaringly obvious that you’re not living there mate. Also, “cleaning” is a very vague reason to deduct from a deposit.
Even if he was a lodger when he moved in, he’s not now.
Cut your losses and send him back the deposit, trust me on this. It’s the easiest way, unless you fancy going to court, and he’s got a signed AST, and you didn’t protect the deposit!
I’m trying to help you here big lad.
Your tenant doesn't live with their landlord, though. You live somewhere else with your wife.
ignore the comment above, yes, at the start of the contract, based on the circumstances, it is a lodger, doesn't matter what the contract states, it is the nature and actual substance that counts.
Later on as things changed as your described, as you suspect, may lead towards the change from lodger to tenant although it is debatable (need to prove intent etc).
It all comes down to whether it is lodger or not. If lodger, not legally required to protect deposit. However, the contract states it would and you also confirmed you would protect it so that doesn't help you.
I would say it condemns him…
What defence could you have? You should have just given the deposit back without trying to keep some for cleaning
I think he's trying to manipulate the situation. It's still my main legal residence, how much time I spend there shouldn't matter?
How much time you spend that absolutely does matter.
You've moved in with your fiancee / wife and you're still trying to claim that you live in this shared house? Pull the other one it's got bells on. Neither we, nor your tenant, nor the courts are that thick.
So you're saying that he's right in essence that moving all my work equipment over there constitutes moving in with her? She still lives with her parents and I just spend most of my time there when we're not traveling for work.
You've told us that you only spend 10% of your time at the shared house.
You're spending most of the rest of the time at your fiancée / wife's home.
You have moved most of your work stuff out of the shared house.
No one is going to seriously believe that your main home is the shared house.
To compound things, you even wrote and signed a contract which says you would protect his deposit.
Accept you messed up, stop looking for loopholes, and give the tenant to deposit back. If the tenant takes you to court, it's only going to get worse for you.
What about if I stop staying over at hers and sleep at the shared house 100% of the time? I don't want to go to court over this, it looks like he could get a lot of money.
It's too late.
Get a grip because I'm growing tired of gentle parenting you into accepting that you messed up and need to face the consequences of your own actions.
Just give him the money. Otherwise the Court will make you pay him a lot more money.
So the court is really likely to side with him just because I spend more time at hers? All my mail goes to the shared house and I have my room there.
Mate you keep asking the same question and expecting a different reply as you don’t like what you’ve been told.
It’s time to grow up and face the music bud.
In short: absolutely
The cheapest and simplest option for you right now is to return the deposit in full
Yes, because it's clearly not your main residence. The court will side with him because it's literally the law to protect the deposit, which you've admitted to not doing. Pay it back and hope the tenant doesn't take it to court
Moving back in won't turn tenants back into lodgers. Don't forget that your other tenants can also take action if you haven't protected their deposits either.
Simplest and cheapest solution would to give the entirety of their deposit back and hope they don't take you to court for 3x the deposit value.
Is the deposit really worth the effort that this is gonna take for you for the sake of doing some cleaning ?
Especially for just superficial work and no tradesman in or anything
Just give him his money and move on with your life before the situation becomes more and more complicated
This.
I think op is concerned the tenant/ all tenants could sue for failure to protect and he could lose 1-3x additional. Is the property a licensed hmo?
They probably should tbh 🤷 rules are there for a reason
Yes, that's what I'm worried about now. The house isn't an HMO
It was an hmo even when you lived there. If you live in a selective licensed area, you could be in some trouble. RRO could cost a lot.
you have more than 2 lodgers so it is an HMO.
If you only spend 4 nights there in May it's not your local residence then is it
Return his deposit as soon as possible before he informs the other tenants and they take you to court for the same thing
What about if he can't prove where I was?
You're in the wrong here
You already mentioned he has CCTV so I wouldn't chance it. You're Subletting which means they can still tell the landlord Don't tempt them
My landlord has no problem with subletting. His camera wouldn't be able to see the comings and goings of everyone in the property on a daily basis, just the parking spot
How does your landlord feel about his agreement with you having turned into a rent-to-rent agreement?
Typical landlord trying to have it all and cut corners and wonder why they get burnt. No sympathy at all
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
You have fucked up in so, so many ways here.
You moved out - your main residence is not the house where you are letting out rooms. You now have three tenants, with tenancies, and all of the rights that go with a tenancy. So you have three deposits to protect. Three sents of how-to-rent guides etc that must be provided, and so on.
Is the house appropriately insured? Does it meet all of the HMO requirements, which are higher than those required for a single dwelling? Have you been paying tax properly on the income?
"I didn't bother to do the reading" isn't a defence.
No sympathy. I bet you didn't have the right insurance or licence either
Do the "clean" yourself and give him the fucking deposit back. GTFOH with your bullshit
Please Keep it Civil