Updating post from Reddit.
Sorry long post…So had a bit of a nightmare experience that’s full come to light after a tenant left. The fully managed agency is pretty useless. So a tenant left my property after being there for about 8 years. Haven’t heard much the odd repair here and there, but much has come to light after viewing the state of the property. I’ve seen one inspection in the whole time, where no real issues other than ‘wear and tear’ were raised. So in year 1 I was told there was a leak in the bathroom and the bath/ sink needed replacing and repairs needed to ceiling below. I’ve just seen the property… plaster removed, 2-3 plasterboard sheets screwed on, that’s it. No attempt to finish. Bathroom itself, clear there is water stains all around the sink, two additional flexi hoses had been plumbed into the sink (now left hanging into a bucket!), the bath side had a roughly sawn bit of panel put in too, really poor job.pretty sure they used as a wet room for ritual washing (the one inspection notes water on floor, several years after the ‘leak’). Large amounts of mould, downstairs thought there was rising damp (paper peeled along the bottom of walls), all ways bone dry, was also interior walls! All the air vents had been taped over too. Reckon they never opened windows and dried all the clothes indoors When I asked to increase the rent (about the 5th time, they never actually did anything before), it’s well below market rates. They said the tenant was claiming about draughty windows, and needed replacing. Nothing on report, tradesman’s suggested replacing windows as ‘nothing more they can do’ I asked about replacing seals (first mention I’d had about windows, including report). My visit, one window has 5cm of water between panes and warped rusted frames (this never mentioned and no pictures!). Tenants… arrive lots of letters and bills… none of which mention the ‘named tenant’, it’s a 3 bed semi. Letter to two adults (unemployment letters, the names tenant was supposedly a professional), they had three kids (height lines and names drawn on wallpaper of all the family members was a clue). I suspect a sublet, possibly a mate of letting agent.
These are the major issues, clearly I need a new agent, but do I have any options, feel the agency have not managed the tenants or the condition of the property at all. I’ve asked number times for condition reports and pictures, but only once received a brief report, basically with wear and tear as an issue…
I feel sorry for the tenants myself.
Sell it buy a new build
You didn't check your property for 7 years which sounds like major neglect
Even when you you had repairs done you didn't check to see the quality of the work?
No photos nothing?
Why would they? They’ve paid somebody else to do that.
I fully manage my own properties now and unless there’s an issue I don’t inspect them until a tenant leaves or maybe when gas certs need renewing.
I encourage my tenants to report any issues no matter how small. I also want them to enjoy their home and that means not pestering them needlessly.
7 years is a fair amount of time but again, as far as they knew, the agent was on top of things.
Agents are always out for themselves. I expect they made it hard for tenant to contact landlord and hard for landlord to check on the property. No photos. That’s how they like it. Throw landlord a bill for xxx amount without evidence and hope nobody notices. Chances are it was taken from the rent before landlord saw it without any other documentation.
A had a place that was “fully managed” many years ago. I was charged £150 for a bathroom light switch TWICE! I didn’t notice until tenant contacted me directly and I asked for statements. Turned out it was never even changed. When I went there to resolve it the tenant told me everything. That place is 2hrs from me and £5 for a switch. Needless to say, I self manage now. The point being, agents are sneaky AF. They sent me photos of work that turns out was another property in the same development. It’s hard to trust any agent after that.
Legally it's still the landlords responsibility to have regular inspections and not visiting your property in 8 years is a failure in due diligence.
You visiting your tenants and finding out there are issues is you fulfilling your responsibilities as a landlord.
The estate agents are just a middle man. I don't have much sympathy for OP.
That’s totally wrong. There’s no legal requirement for a landlord to visit a property in person even if self managed. Thats just rubbish. You should also look up the meaning of due diligence too since thats done before anything else and not in the middle of a tenancy. There’s no law that states when a landlord should check. In fact there’s laws that state when they can’t and thats anytime the tenant says no.
A lot of landlords live abroad. There’s no way they’re going to travel back to inspect a property periodically and certainly not if they have no reason to think anything’s wrong. It’s not practical, never mind a legal requirement.
I bet you would be the first to complain about your legal right to quiet enjoyment too if your landlord did regular inspections. Now that is a legal responsibility. To give your tenants that :)
You will probably disagree but as the tenant was living in that mess. Shouldn’t they have informed the landlord? They knew what was going on. Did they really think it was a good idea to say nothing? I know if I was living there, I wouldn’t be waiting for the landlord to turn up sometime in the next 8yrs. I’d be raising hell. Maybe thats just me 🤷
I requested details of the property several times, but live the other end of the country
You’re clearly not equipped to do your job properly.
They paid somebody else to do that for them.
“Fully Managed” means just that. They just trusted the wrong agent. With so many shocking agents thats pretty easy to do.
I find it hard to have sympathy for either camp. It was 8 years. Long time of collecting money to sit on your arse while some poor sod was living in these conditions.
I do agree with that but you need to understand that this landlord was unaware and thought it was covered. If you pay somebody to look after something then you’re trusting them. It’s not like they were just collecting rent and neglecting the tenant themselves. Im sure they also paid OTT to agents so they and the tenant have both been screwed here.
Had they been a shitty landlord they wouldn’t have come here and openly showed everybody their mistake.
They want help/advice to fix it so seems unfair to put them down for that. Im sure they’re as disgusted in the conditions as anybody else is and don’t need everybody telling them that. Im also fairly sure they’ve learned a lesson and once it’s sorted they won’t make the same mistake again.
Im not sure why/how a tenant could live like that for so long either. In that state, most tenants would have had council involved and this tenant didn’t even try to contact the landlord by the sounds of it. Even if an agent is managing a property and making it difficult to pass messages there should be contact info on the agreement they could use.
People are so judgy sometimes. Everybody makes mistakes and the last thing they want is somebody pointing that out when they ask for help. The agent deserves all the fire here imho and both tenant and landlord some sympathy. Just my opinion ofc :)
Owning a house isn’t a job.
Lol, it bloody is. Owning a house is a part time job in and of itself, never mind having an extra to rent it out.
You know what I meant :)
No, he didn’t hence the comment, fool
Agreed
Renting one is
No it’s not
Neither is spouting drivel on Reddit, but here you are putting in the work.
Cry me a river
Cry me a river? I would, but you’d probably claim it as a tax-deductible water feature.
What does that even mean
So in 7 years you couldn't make a single 7 hour (at worst, say it's newcastle to cornwall) journey to check in on the property, or find someone locally to check it?
How is your comment helpful exactly
It sounds like the (not-) fully-managing agents, or whoever did the year 1 repairs are to blame, not the tenants. Could you sue either of them for not doing their jobs?
Speaking as a tenant, if I reported a serious leak, and this was what was done to fix it, I'd conclude that the landlord didn't give a toss about either the property or their responsibilities to their tenants, and therefore it wasn't worth escalating any further maintenance issues.
I do agree with this. When I was living in a rental apartment the agent didn’t do any repairs. I just sent out emails to cover my own back. Really poor service. When the issues get worse it is the landlord who will suffer.
You did nothing but get money for 8 years and you're disappointed with this?
Take one year of that rent and repair/decorate.
Next time get 6 monthly photo reports on condition as a minimum.
The agent took 8 years of full management fees, told the landlord that the place was fine minus the standard wear at tear. The agent is to blame here.
OP didn't check that work for 8 years?
I asked numerous times for inspection reports, verbal assurances the property is in good condition, and written report is the same. I live the other end of the country, so visiting is difficult, I’ve had two other tenants (not as lo mg as this), and reports were similar, I had not reason to expect it to have deteriorated
With respect, if the agency continued to withhold images of the work done, you should have travelled to visit or got an independent inspection done. The property absolutely will have deteriorated during that long of a time span, not sure why you expected it not too.
I do mean this in the nicest possible way, it's most likely best if you sell this property, you may not be equipped to be a landlord.
Also with respect. If you pay an agent to manage a property and they give you no reason to doubt it, you’ve had no evidence to the contrary then why would you?
Let me ask you this. Would you travel from one end of the country to the other with no guarantee of getting to view the property? Even if you suspected an issue, you can’t just let yourself in. Bad agents are shady AF. They will happily have you travel only for them to have something “come up” or the tenant not be available.
> I live the other end of the country, so visiting is difficult
But not impossible over 8 years!
Combine it with something "fun" every few years minimum, even if fully managed.
Y’know, there’s hands-off, then there’s hands-off.
Hope you’ve learned a lesson here, sir.
Manage your assets better
1 Refurbish properly.
2 Find new letting agent (and make sure they are doing what you pay them to do)
Yep, currently getting quotes on a new kitchen, as it’s past its prime!
Also make sure your agent is doing what you pay them to do. Those repairs are a disgrace, did they invoice you to "fix" the sink/ ceiling etc? Did they not send periodic inspection reports? If they dont chase them for them.
That is not actually that bad for 8 years, iv seen worse after 6 months.
However, not sure what the agents role is here, but if I decided to let out my property, id want proof pics every 6 months say, because my version of respectable is different to others version of respectable, people are happy to live in a tip if needed. There was probably more people than there should have been in there too.
I’ve had a couple of tenants in before. At the end of the last two, the property reflected what I understood from the exit inspection report
Slumlord
Hardly. They paid up for repairs as requested by the agent. Just the agent was lazy and unprofessional and did not carry out the task they were contracted for.
I doubt you have any real recourse, have you followed the agency's complaints procedure?
Probably best overboard that ceiling as the new boards look water damaged too.
Remove the flexis and consider fitting a shower over the bath
Yeh, spoken to a plasterer who suggested the same with overboarding. There is an existing shower over the bath (and shower curtain before someone asks! ) , pressure is good too…. I have absolutely no idea what these hoses are for…
I've had tenants who for whatever reason don't like to use the bath, shower, basin, whatever but prefer to fill a bin or bucket and wash in that instead. Why they can't do it in the bath or put some towels down I don't know.
Best not overthink it, fix whatever is broken, have a good cleanup and get someone in who wants to live there
And hoses could have been for a portable washing machine, filling buckets to wash car, bonsai trees, homebrew, all sorts of reasons to want a flexible hose. Probably could have used the shower but were obsessive and felt the water was a different temperature or flow rate
Did you chase the agent for reports on the condition and follow up on the repair work that was needed?
Yes, was assured that the work was to a high quality, I requested that decent quality materials used (metal bath rather than plastic etc). However I was never given photos.
You appear to have a claim against the agent. If they don’t want to know, try whichever Ombudsman scheme they are a member of.
I assume you were billed for these repairs, did you request any proof they had been completed to the requested standard? If you took action against the agent, the first thing a judge would query is what due diligence you performed to check the work was satisfactory and that your property was being appropriately managed.
No one to blame but yourself here to be honest. Maybe you don’t live too close but even then it’s not a hands off approach. This is typical of bad BTL landlords giving everyone else a bad name.
This is why I need to set up a property management company that actually does some proper work
You should be setting aside roughly 3% of the properties value for upkeep and maintenance that would cover the work needed to get this back to a good state
How much were you charged by the agents for the remedial works to fix the leak? It beggars belief that the tenants were happy with this, but it also is a surprise to me that you didn't visit the property or have an agent inspect properly (and take photos) in all this time. Given what clearly needs to happen in this property, the fixes will be covered by the general upgrade you need to carry out. Or sell the property to some willing to do the necessary work?
This is the last report Nov 23, Spec: 3 Bedroom Semi Detached
Entrance/Hallway
Item Condition/Notes
Staircase Damage to wall at the bottom of stair – ADVISED IT NEEDS PAINTING
Alarm Sensor Cover missing – TENANT ADVISED THEY HAVE THE COVER
Behind Front Door Wear/Tear – ADVISED IT NEEDS TOUCHING UP WITH PAINT
Living Room Area
Item Condition/Notes
NO MAJOR AREAS OF CONCERN
Dining Room
Item Condition/Notes
NO MAJOR AREAS OF CONCERN
Kitchen
Item Condition/Notes
Worktop Showing signs of wear
Sink Silicon needs replacing – ADVISED CONTRACTOR
Ceiling Damp Marks – TOLD WINDOWS NEED TO BE OPENED
Cleanliness ADVISED TO KEEP CLEAN
Bathroom
Item Condition/Notes
Tiling Window corner where tiles meet – NEEDS A CORNER STRIP -
Flooring Laminate – Signs of water ingress. – ADVISED NO WATER SHOULD BE LEFT
ON FLOOR
Toilet
Item Condition/Notes
NO MAJOR AREAS OF CONCERNS
Bedroom 1
Item Condition/Notes
Vent Taped up vent – ADVISED NEED TO REMOVE
Chimney Wall Paint flaked – Small spots – ADVISED NEED TO TOUCH UP PAINT|
Bedroom 2
Item Condition/Notes
NO MAJOR AREAS OF CONCERNS
Bedroom 3
Item Condition/Notes
Walls Paint work – ADVISED ROOM NEED PAINTING AS TOUCH UP HASN’T
WORKED
External
Item Condition/Notes
Wardrobe ADVISED THIS NEED TO BE REMOVED ASAP
OVERALL
Overall the property is showing signs of some wear and tear and some areas need a decorating but no major
concerns. Advised the tenants of the issue raised above and will inspect again in 3 months.
Which agents?
Local to the area,
Which area? It’s important that no one else uses these agents, or any other agents.
Yeah, sell your houses and stop being a landlord you exploitative fuck. If you live on the other side of the country and can't be arsed to travel down to check the property -your fucking job- then you don't deserve to be a landlord.
Exploitative? The tenants were paying well below market rate, and may have been the result of a sublet. I paid for a fully managed service that supposedly involved the property being regularly inspected, I had been assured the property was in an ok condition... Naive yes, exploitative I hardly think so.
Please Keep it Civil
Something I’ve learned from coming to this Reddit subpage is to simply not bother. If you’re letting through an agency the agency should have kept up to date with it and informed you of what was going on, otherwise what is the point of it? I might aswell do it all myself! If you have a tenant over a long period of time you presume they will look after the house and if anything is needed the agent will get in contact and organise.
I would get in contact with an ombudsman about the agency as they were not doing their job. I would also name and shame the agency, speak to the local press - we’ve gone this root and suddenly they’re willing to hear us out and send some money to coverage damages.
I would also not bother with an agent full stop. Do it yourself if possible, it’s mush easier to keep on top of things!
Lmao and they say being a landlord is a fulltime job, you didnt even bother to check your property that an agent refused to show you pictures of.
'What are my options?!' - Fire, its the only way to be sure :)
That bathroom looks like it looked like a shit hole 8 years ago.
Its awful! The mold....everywhere!
The stains ON the tiles , not just the mold, there is some opaque rough something on it, it feels like really thick limescale (though its soft water area). at first I honestly thought they had painted it badly, whatever it is on the tiles, it's that thick (you'll note the pedestal is not shiny at all, it's coated). The mold, yes you expect it to darken round the shower area, but why all round the sink too (and the mold ON the sink (the sink is only 6 years old),
The quality of how they installed the sink and bath, there's the square on the floor (where the previous sink was). The badly sawn off bath side panel attached to the end of a bath side panel (it was a full length tiled panel before), and the sealant that looks like its been done by a four year old (or not done in other areas).
Probably best to sell it and return some housing stock to the market.
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
Its on YOU.
I get it’s annoying but this is all on you part of your job even with an agency ! Even if your other end of country 8 years is way to long to go without inspection or at least photos
In the future buy closer you have a responsibility to make sure your not renting out a crack den looking house ! this place would have been due some work even if looked after
Cheers, I was the usual 'accidental landlord', I used to live in the house and moved away.
I've had a couple of tenants in before, and tried to keep it in good condition, indeed the property was fully redecorated before the current tenants moved in.
Some of the stuff they have done I don't understand tbh! Clearly the bathroom flexi-hoses, but the curtain rails with fully lined curtains and shutters have been removed from almost all the rooms (not just the odd one) and replaced with nails and wire and crappy fabric..
Oh yeah no hate from me ! Just gotta be realistic tho if the money ain’t worth the drive at least once every few months then just save yourself the hassle sell as is and call it a day on renting
People do random things I don’t quite understand it myself ! 😂
I completely feel your pain. Also an accidental landlord, and now living abroad. It’s so hard to find agents who you can trust 🫤
You were totally fine to leave this as is for 7 years. Hey, at least you got your money from the tenants!