Updating post from Reddit.

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QUESTION
Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago
Section 8 or section 21 to evict tenants who don't give access for gas safety check

Hi everyone,

I am having problem to evict tenants who don't want to leave after the tenancy has expired. The tricky thing is that the Gas Safety Certificate expired 2 months ago, (I arranged gas check appointments multiple times and failed).

In such case, can I still use Section21 to evict them without a current valid gas safety certificate or should I use section8 using breach of contract to enforce them to do the gas check, then reissue the S21?

By the way, in the contract there is a clause allowing the landlord to take back possession at the end of the tenancy. If I use this ground for S8, how likely will I be granted possession?

Thanks for any help in advance.

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Posted by rollo_read 1 week ago

Have you perhaps tried getting the gas people making the appointment direct with the tenants, rather than just making an appointment and expecting it to be convenient for them?

Worked fine for me over the last 7 years.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

I had tried this way as well, but failed. Numerous emails sent, got few replies but no confirmation.

I am afraid the tenants are intentionally avoiding the GSC as I had sent S21 to them when the GSC was valid. (Unfortunately I didn't follow the court processing correctly)

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Posted by 21delirium 1 week ago

It will need to be a Section 8, because Section 21 would be automatically rejected because of the lack of gas safety (even if you've tried to do it).

But your post seems quite confused, you wouldn't use the section 8 to force a gas safety and then have to go back to a section 21. The whole eviction would just follow the section 8 process.

Make sure you keep evidence of how you have tried to arrange the gas safety check, in writing, because this will be important.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

Thanks for the interest.
As I learnt that normally the judge won't grant a straightforward possession order but a suspended one with conditions (this will enforce tenants to follow).

If I use section 8 just for not cooperating with the GSC, I won't manage to evict them.

All the evidence I have kept well. :)

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Posted by Special-Improvement4 1 week ago

just go to a solicitor this is not something to get wrong…. I’ve used landlord action a couple of times and highly recommend

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Posted by Large-Butterfly4262 1 week ago

You need a valid gas safety certificate to issue a valid s21.

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Posted by Christine4321 1 week ago

Tenants dont get to just refuse to allow the safety certs to be completed then laugh that a S21 cant be issued. This is a very quick S8 that the court will act promptly on.

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Posted by Ok_Entry_337 1 week ago

Quick?

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Posted by Christine4321 1 week ago

Yep. OPs insurance is at risk here. He can request an accelerated process.

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Posted by Ok_Entry_337 1 week ago

I’ve never heard of accelerated section 8.

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Posted by Large-Butterfly4262 1 week ago

Of course not, but it is a catch 22.

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Posted by Christine4321 1 week ago

No its really not. You can serve a S21 where its demonstrable that its the tenants who have frustrated the safety certification process. OP however would be better serving S8 (or both at the same time) for this breach which may cover him in the event of an incident and his insurers refusing to cover. He will have made best efforts under the legislation available to him to resolve the expired safety cert situation.

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Posted by Opening-Big666 1 week ago

If LL can prove obstruction (ie blocked from attending) then this should be considered?

Definitely would agree that it OP would need to go for a hearing and not accelerated approach to make the facts clear for the Judge to consider.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

Tks, but it's a bit unfair to the landlords, which is beyond their control. The gov should be allowing the landlords to pay them to carry out this check, if tenants don't cooperate, there's punishment to the tenants not the landlords.

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Posted by Large-Butterfly4262 1 week ago

On what basis are the tenants refusing access?

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Posted by DarkBlurryNight 1 week ago

This is important to know. Could be a reaction to previous landlord harassing behaviour, for example.

That doesn't exempt them to allow the gas inspection to be done, through.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

They are not explicitly refusing, but making the check impossible. Will try to show up at the door recently and see what will happen with prior notice.

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Posted by DarkBlurryNight 1 week ago

When did they stop replying to your requests? Was it during all of the tenancy or just for this check?

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

just for this check

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Posted by JorgiEagle 1 week ago

You don’t necessarily have to go through the eviction process.

You need to start sending letters to the address. Letters are accepted as having been received if sent by first class post. Doesn’t matter if they don’t reply. They’ve been delivered

Write to them, inform them that under clause X of their contract, they need to grant access for gas safety checks. Give them a date proposed, and a date to reply by.

If they don’t reply by the date, you can get a court order to enter the property without their permission.

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Posted by Christine4321 1 week ago

Section 8. This is a serious breach of tenancy meaning you now cant guarantee the safety of the property and the court will act quickly.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

I am afraid, the best result will be a suspended possession order to be issued to force the tenants to carry out the gas check. I have to use S21 to guarantee a straightforward order again. Long journey, isn't it?

What about using the clause allowing the landlord to take back possession at the end of the tenancy as a ground for S8? Can this help with a straightforward order?

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Posted by Large-Butterfly4262 1 week ago

Not enforceable as it contradicts statute.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

So that clause won't even help judge's decision to grant the order then?
:(

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Posted by Large-Butterfly4262 1 week ago

No, because it goes against the law that states that ast become periodic contracts after the fixed term. It effectively serves s21 at the start of the tenancy, which doesn’t work as you can’t serve s21 within first 4 months and they expire after 6 if not enforced. It’s going back to the bad old days of tenancy agreements having a s21 notice stapled to them on day 1. The tenant is probably trying to stall until the new law comes in.

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Posted by Christine4321 1 week ago

Maybe the court will suspend possession (after ordering access for the certs to be done) but that requires the tenant to turn up and defend their position. However you can issue S21 at the same time as its the tenants actions that have caused your failure to fulfil the safety cert obligations.

Just serve them with both OP.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

I thought the same way,only not too sure, thank you.

Will try to serve them with both, fingers crossed.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

I was wondering if anyone knows if the court judge check the tenants' credit as reference to make a decision?

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Posted by phpadam 1 week ago

The courts wont check a tenants credit report, im not sure how this is relevent?

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Posted by FinancialFirstTimer 1 week ago

Isn’t there something in the tenancy agreement allowing you entry to do things like the gas safety certificate? Emergency access etc?

Not having safe gas is a bit of an emergency…

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

Yes, there is such clause. But the tenants just don't want to collaborate as they know I would need the GSC to trigger S21

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Posted by FinancialFirstTimer 1 week ago

There’s no collaboration required for emergencies…

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Posted by Professional-Lie6930 1 week ago

An S21 won’t fly if you don’t have an up to date Gas Safety Cert

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Posted by TickityTickityBoom 1 week ago

Arrange an appointment and be there with an key to let them in.

Just send a letter/email/text to the tenant and let them know you’ll be there.

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

If it's that simple, I won't be here, lol

Tenants might sue me for any reason of unauthorized entry

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Posted by TickityTickityBoom 1 week ago

Send it recorded delivery

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Posted by mousecatcher4 1 week ago

This whole thread is a great example of how, far from protecting tenants, the law reduces everything to an extravagant mockery, damaging tenants and benefiting nobody other than lawyers.

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Posted by Soft-Influence-3645 1 week ago

But the tenants can not refuse you to visit the property, to facilitate a gas safety check. If you have a key and let yourself in, they can’t do anything. You’re legally allowed in the property to facilitate this gas safety check, if you send your tenants an email/ring your tenants saying in 2 weeks a gas engineer will be coming for the boiler etc… correct me if I’m wrong 😅

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Posted by CarpenterSquare1000 1 week ago

First of all there is no legal basis that I can let myself in. And what if they will sue me for sth missing in the house? lol

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Posted by Soft-Influence-3645 1 week ago

But there is a legal basis. To do the gas safety check.

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