Updating post from Reddit.
Hi all,
First time posting.
My mother died and left a will that requires the house to be sold. The house is on the market.
Whilst she was alive she allowed her grandchild to live in the property. Therefore, there is no written agreement/tenancy. She doesn’t pay rent and doesn’t really look after the property (refuses to mow the grass etc.). She has a cat which she keeps in one of the rooms and when people have managed to view the property, one of the reasons for not putting in an offer I’m told, is because of the state and smell of that room.
I’m trying to understand what I can or need to do to remove her from the house. I initially agreed that she could stay for a set period of time until she has a job and got a deposit together to help. After a year I then I served written notice that she has a month to leave. She has ignored that notice stating I need a ‘court letter’.
I’ve read online regarding section 8 and section 21 but it doesn’t seem like that is the appropriate process as there is no written agreement and she does not pay rent so isn’t a tenant in the traditional sense.
Any help would be useful.
You need a lawyer who specialises in tenancy law to sort this out. Above Reddit’s pay grade.
Thanks. I know this. If anyone has any contacts for one that would also be useful.
The house is now “owned” by the executors of your mother’s will. It’s not likely that the grandchild has any right to stay there without the permission of the executors so legally speaking she is an unauthorised occupant but if she refuses to leave then the executors would need to seek a court order removing her.
Thanks. That’s what I will need help with.
Her occupancy/tenancy was created before the execeutors owned the property.
Your relative is correct; you need a "court letter, " or rather, you need to serve the correct notices. Once those are served, you will need to schedule a court hearing. The occupant will put up a defence, no doubt, and if you win, they have to leave. However, they may stay so you may then have to ask court-appointed bailiffs to visit.
You need an eviction specialist. This is a recipe for disaster, and everything you've said so far is wrong and will get you in more trouble.
The main thing is to establish her occupancy rights; you can go from there. Just to be clear, just because no written tenancy exists does not mean there isn't one. The law is weird.
The grandchild’s assertion that you need a "court letter" suggests they believes they has stronger rights. The grandchild could argue she has some right to remain, such as a "beneficial interest" under a trust (e.g., if your mother promised her she could stay long-term and she relied on that promise to her detriment).
You could really be in for a headache here. Perhaps offering to pay a deposit and helping her get into a rental is a better route than solicitors and courts. Working with other family members, specifically the grandchild's parents.
Thanks. What do you mean by everything I’ve said so far is wrong?
I should say the grandchild is 38 so an adult.
Any contacts for a specialist you know?
She’s already been offered money once the house sells to help get her on her feet. After all she is family and I’m willing to help her but legallly I need to fulfil the will.
Highly suggest you speak to an actual lawyer. While most of the advice here could be helpful, some might be wrong. Last thing you need is to do or say something that will undermine your case.
>Any contacts for a specialist you know?
Well, yes, but perhaps not. They specialise in evictions, but the grandchild could be a different type of occupier than what they useualy deal with (ASTs) so do ask them and double check.
https://www.landlordaction.co.uk/
I may have misspoken, but much of what you said is incorrect or misinformed.
>After a year I then I served written notice that she has a month to leave
If it's an AST, it would be a minimum of two months and needs to be in the prescribed form. This sounds like you just asked her to leave. It could be just wrong, and if so, it could be viewed as harassment.
>She has ignored that notice stating I need a ‘court letter’.
Yes. This shouldn't be a surprise. Evictions require court orders and the use of prescribed court forms.
>I’ve read online regarding section 8 and section 21
Maybe, but also maybe not. It depends on the type of occupancy, and going down the wrong route is going to be costly and may be detrimental. If you did issue one of these, you are admitting she has an AST, which may be the wrong route depending on her occupancy rights.
>it doesn’t seem like that is the appropriate process as there is no written agreement
Doesn't have to be a written agreement for S8 and S21 to be applicable.
>she does not pay rent so isn’t a tenant in the traditional sense
It's not really how it works.
Got you. Many thanks. I have no idea you see as I’m not a landlord so I need to have an idea of what I need to ask a solicitor or specialist.
Php is right - there's a whole bunch of different types of occupancy with different requirements for removal. I'm afraid there's no other way around this than to pay for specialist legal support - though to be clear, the estate should do this, not yourself.
Depending on the circumstances of who's benefitting from the estate (ie getting the money from the house sale) then you may wish to look into withdrawing as an executor... this could be a lot more hassle and frustration than would normally be expected from such a role.
Thanks. Might just pay someone to administer the rest of it. I’ve done 70 already.
If she has no money where is she going to live inbetween when you sell the house and then give her the money ? Will she move out so the completion can happen ?
The estate needs to pay for her to move out somewhere. She can then get UC to pay the rent.
Your sibling or you (whoever are parents of the grandchild) should be dealing with their child. Is there more to this story ?
She has a job.
Then she’s just taking the piss … solicitor needed.
Did she just get the job because you mentioned in the post that you told her to get one?
She was studying and then got a job.
>She doesn’t pay rent and doesn’t really look after the property (refuses to mow the grass etc.).
It's possible that she is an excluded occupier, so if there is a agreement to repair and insure the property then she may be an actual tenant.
Thanks. There’s no agreement for anything. She was allowed to stay by to my mother. My mother passed away and the will states the house should be sold and split. I legally need to fulfil the will.
I think your biggest headache here will be family relationships, rather than the law in terms of being able to evict her.
I presume this is your niece - I would try and bring in other relatives such as your sibling / her parent in on this decision. There's nothing quite like a will for creating a family estrangement.
It does sound like she is an excluded occupier, in which case no court order is needed, but persuading her of this reality might be the trickier thing - a solicitor's letter might do the trick If she cannot be persuaded. The other alternatives are bribery / cash for keys, or you can just give reasonable notice and change the locks - but that's a good way to blow up wider family relationships.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah the others won’t do anything. Im not that fussed about the family relations tbh. Just need to do what I legally need to do.
r/LegalAdviceUK
If she's not paying rent then it's possible that she's a tenant at will, which should make it easier to remove her. It's been a long time since I studied property law however and this has never come up in my business. Get a solicitor.
If she has at any point asked for money to leave then keep evidence of that as it will help your case come eviction time.
Thanks for your reply
If she's not paying rent and has no obligations then she's not a tenant.
She's probably an excluded licence holder, which would mean you just need to give her reasonable notice to leave, and then you change the locks. Which is nice.
That’s for your reply
Take legal advice.
When the granddaughter lived with your mother she would have been a lodger with much more limited rights than a tenant. In essence she could be given be given short notice with no redress.
You don’t state whether you are the Executor or not but if so you would ‘step into your mother’s shoes as landlord to the lodger.
However you created a verbal tenancy agreement by telling her she could stay and the courts would likely say this is a normal tenancy with all the rights and responsibilities therein. In order to evict you might need to have all the correct documents served - gas cert, elec cert, etc.
So not legal advice - which I reiterate you should seek - but I see 3 options.
1 Offer her money to fuck off 2 create a formal tenancy 3 Stick the property in auction with ‘a tenant staying informally on unknown terms’ and let her be someone else’s problem. Get the money quicker and move on.
Out of interest how many beneficiaries and are you or the granddaughter one of them?
If so you could tell her that when you stick in auction her proportion of the inheritance will be lower since the sale price will be lower because the house stinks of cat pee.
But take advice legal advice on these options.
Thanks for the response. I’ve approached a few lawyers and I like the sound of one of them. So I’ll probably instruct them to deal with the removal.