Updating post from Reddit.
Posting on behalf of my mum. She only owns one house my nans which was passed down to her when my nan died. The tenants have lived there for 7 years this year but last year they stopped paying rent and are now 2 months behind. The tenant has changed their phone number and deactivated their Facebook after my mum tried contacting them on there. 2 months no contact and no rent. I went down there today as the house is an hour away and they have done renovations on the front of the house without letting my mum know. Added a porch, new front door so changed the locks, new windows, new fence, new wall around the front garden and removed the rocks from the house and painted it so it's smooth. My mum said they could paint inside and make it a home but not completely change it. I'm not sure what they were thinking or who would do such big renovations on a house that isn't theirs but im worried they think they can take it over or something. I don't know where the old door has gone and it's caused my mum a lot of stress. The house is cheap to rent and she charges them below market rent as well so i dont know why they would do this. What are the options here?
She needs to pay an eviction specialist, does your mum have a proper AST and kept up to date with all her certificates,
All up to date yes
Excellent. You now need to find a solicitor ASAP and serve a section 21 to get an eviction.
deposit scheme cert? You need the lease agreement, gas and elec certs, epc cert, all versions of the lease agreement signed by the tenant.
Get this done ASAP. The new rent reforms are coming in this year which will put an end to the Section 21 eviction.
You need to file the Section 21 and hope they move out....if they don't move you'll need to get the bailiffs.
Will we have to go through the court for bailiffs if they don't move out when served
Yep
Yep. Which is not a problem.
The next people you rent to make sure you get a guarantor.... that way you can chase arrears from them.
Do you know how much it will cost roughly
From 1 to 2 thousand if all goes well.
Less than losing the house to fraudsters
Surely Section 8? Breach of contract.
Or a section 8 damage to property...
I just think it's easier to go for a 21 because then we don't need any details other than to show we have all our documents in order.
Jesus- a new front door can easily be a grand, let alone a porch! New windows, multiple thousands! They’re spending some money! Very odd.
If no response, and you want to take back control, get an eviction specialist in. https://www.ast-assistance.com
Ground for section 8 as well as 21 if they’re a fair chunk behind on rent.
I’d reach out by email and a letter through the door first though.
I wasn't expecting it when i went up there I havent been there in a long time so was absolutely shocked they had done this. Especially to something that isn't theirs. My mum is going to be mailing a letter but I went up there to see if they were still there never mind the renovations they did I took photos of the house and sent some to my mum. I asked the neighbour who my mum has known for years she said they were recently done
Please please please get legal advice and instruct a solicitor to handle this before contacting them.
My mum is already in touch but we had no idea about the renovations
Notices won't be valid unless certain requirements have been met and there are cowboy eviction services out there who won't do their full due diligence, leaving you liable for a lot of trouble. It just needs to be done right and someone needs to properly review the situation as it is.
Best of luck. Try Review Solicitors to find some decently rated firms in your area and ask them for free quotes.
https://www.reviewsolicitors.co.uk/ under "Housing & Property - Landlord and Tenant"
Did they sell the house to someone illegally?
No its still them living there
Check the land registry and make sure they’ve not nicked it. It wouldn’t be the first time!
How would that be possible?
The “how” is if the property has the registered owner living at the address of the rental and not updated to the actual home address. So some illegal fiddling to pay some bills on that name at that address and that’s where all the paperwork would go. Identity theft is easier if there is already some connection of a name at an address they have full access to.
But have a look on Google street view to try and get a timeline of when things may have changed (recently vs been i look ie that for a few years)
I did they had painted the house in 2021, but that's it. Everything else was the same, but they still didn't get permission to paint it so they've just been doing what they want to it
OP Stop typing and actually listen to what people are telling you
Do it right. Stop telling everyone what she is and isn't doing and get a solicitor now.
We already have already contacted one
This is where these stories venture off into the land of make-believe: “oh, I’m too hysterical to read and act on the useful posts explaining exactly what do do, I’ll just keep drip-feeding more bizarre information about the story”.
Didn’t think that was possible. When I bought my home. There was 10 checks and checks that the seller was who they say they are and that I was who I was saying I was. Also checks on who owns the house etc
It does happen, took this fella 2 1/2 years to get it back:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/house-sold-property-fraud-luton-b1949238.html
Yeah 3/4 years ago. I bought mine last year. Still had it can happen that easy
Can you give more information on how they would do it
Go onto the land registry website first and pay the fee to get the upto date deeds. If there’s been a new change then you know there’s new ownership.
I'd be worried that they've been scammed into believing that they've brought the property. When you went round did you attempt to speak to the tenants ?
Personally I'd start by sending them a letter to ask what is going on and then proceed from there. It's definitely worth asking for legal advice regarding the lack of rent. If your mother is planning on continuing to rent them then I'm not sure whether raising the changes they've made will be worth it while you iron out why they've stopped paying rent. I assume your mother has the appropriate insurance.
Contact Landlord Action before you do anything. You and you’re mum need to seek legal advice first to make sure you do everything to the letter of the law or it could backfire on you
It is odd, it’s not unheard of. People stay a number of years and get an idea that they some how have rights to the property.
Are you sure it’s still the people your mum rented to that live there? They could have sublet and done a runner. I know it’s an out there theory but this is a little out there itself. Phone numbers changing and Facebook missing is on top of no rent is good grounds for an inspection
Yes I saw the husband walk in there when I was outside in the car
I will answer the question as if this is an actual situation and not something likely made up.
Section 8 for the 2 months missing rent or a section 21 eviction.
I can assure you this isn't made up. I've taken photos of the house as proof as well. Okay, what about the renovations she's most annoyed about that
Apply to keep the deposit and sue for the rest of the cost to put right.
At this point, she just wants them out of the house she doesn't want the rent back or the deposit
I meant she wants them out of the house before she starts with anything else, but she is most annoyed that they have completely changed the house without asking for premisson first. Does she still sue once they've been removed?
Then why ask about the renovations? You just said she's most annoyed about them
Spending large amounts of money on a property that isn't yours is a bit fishy, I think I'd be annoyed because it possibly implies further complications later on down the line
Look at their reply, I gave them the answer but they said they're not interested in that and just want them out the house. Doesn't make sense.
I dunno about you, but my brain immediately went to the tenants are going to try and pull a fast one claiming they've spent all this money in exchange for not paying rent and try and do a subtle takeover of the property or something.
It's the motive that's the issue is what I'm trying to say.
They asked what to do about the changes to the house. I said to keep the deposit and sue for the rest of the cost to put it right.
That is the only solution.
They said they aren't interested in the deposit. So what on earth are they asking for then?
Why don't you just move on. You sound so upset that they didn't take your advice. Very strange behaviour.
Somone else said there would be no point in suing them
This is what we are worried about.
Why would I lie about something like this. Imagine someone completely changed your house, and I assume they will be taking a lot with them when we get them out of the house, so leaving the house a mess. We want them out of the house first but wanted to know what we could do about the renovations later on
Yeah and I gave you the answer, regarding the changes made to the house you keep the deposit and sue for the rest of the cost to put it right.
Then you said they just want them out and isn't interested in the deposit.
What answer do you want?
I wanted both answers
Do not do a section 8 on missing rent. This is BAD advice. Do a section 8 on property damage or section 21.
Why is she annoyed at free house improvements???
There's obviously some motive for them to do that? I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend thousands on a rental property. And it's the fact they didn't ask to do it. The door cost 700 alone and was only recently done, and then they stopped paying rent, changed their number, and deactivated their Facebook.
They’ve improved your property, they can’t keep it, your on top of things! Stop over thinking, over worrying serve their notice and get on with it! Either way you win!
They are allowed to take it with them when they leave
Only if they can restore the original, otherwise they're liable for the costs.
Ok so they are removing the extension that you don’t like!?! Sooo you’ve won AGAIN!
They've not paid rent theyve blocked us, so we can't get a hold of them so we don't know whats going on. They've gotton rid of our old front door so if they did we would have no door. This isn't a win situation
You could have knocked on the door, the husband walked into the house
You can’t get hold of them… YOU KNOW WHERE THEY LIVE! 🤣 stop choosing to be a victim, serve the notice and get on with it!
My mum will be serving a notice. But you can't harass the tenants
Because they haven't asked, then they didn't pay rent and then blocking contact can make people worry.
It’s totally made up.
Sounds like you’d be wise to consult Citizens Advice or a solicitor on this one. However, you could also 1. check Rightmove and Zoopla and do a Google search to see whether they’ve either sold it or rented it out to others. 2. Send a letter by signed-for post to say anything you need to (and keep a copy for yourself) - like asking them for the rent or to contact you within a week, and if they don’t do either than a second letter threatening to serve notice on them if they don’t contact you immediately. This allows for them having had a genuine emergency and to own up to it, and then for you to serve notice.
Check the land registry details ASAP it costs £7. You also need to find out if planning permission and building control have authorised the changes and finally, as recommended by someone else, hire an eviction specialist.
We have it's still In her name. I have no idea why they would spend this much on renovations knowing it isn't theirs and they can't keep it. How would we find one
Such a strange situation. Have a search for eviction specialist online
You need to find a SRA regulated Eviction Specialist. Lots of cowboys who know how to fill in a s21/s8 form and deem themselves specialists.
Sounds like they are making choices so they can turn around and say, well we spent this much money on it etc. if your Mum turns around and asks about the rent.
Slightly coercive if you ask me.
Because they've decided that you can't actually do anything to remove them and, after the renovations, they aren't paying rent because "look at all the money we've spent." My sister renovated the kitchen and the bathroom without asking, but my bil did such a good job the landlord didn't increase the rent. They also pay on time and acknowledge it isn't their property.
My mum kept the rent cheap, 480 pound a month for a 2 bed house with only a 60 pound increase from 420 in 7 years.
So I don't think the rent was what they were thinking and if it was they could of discussed it with my mum they have changed their number and deactivated their fb and stopped the rent so I have no idea what their plan is
It doesn't matter how cheap the rent was. Currently, they have a roof over their head, they're only paying the gas and electric, and whatever other bills they've set themselves. They are comforted in knowing you are all 'nice' so they've become squatters who are 480 pound better off. They aren't intending to run, they're enjoying themselves at cost to you.
My former room mate was charged £300, refused to buy her own loo roll or washing powder, had me do everything, whinged if it wasn't up to standard. Didn't bend at the middle ever. Had fast food brought to her thrice weekly, had me get the food and bring it to her front the door. Told people she owned a house at 19 to try and attract men. She complained about no heating, but I said she could turn it on, as long as she paid to the gas bill. She had an electric fire in her room she could've used also. I gave her a small electric heater in the end, which she thankfully left. She had plans to do things up, the words left her mouth, but never followed through. 3 times she offered dinner to different people and then 'forgot' so each time we had waited for dinner to turn up just to go "are you buying anything?" "Ohhhh, noooo, I changed my mind" We're all capable of feeding ourselves but the forced fasting she put on people was quite crappy. She intended to live with me 3 more years, at low rent, and then outright buy a flat because she gets paid well.
At one point it was me, my niece (her friend) and myself and she had a fantasy that we'd all live together in the future in a bigger house, possibly with a west wing based on her brain, after we sell mine and pool resources. We didn't cheer. Now her plan is to kidnap her other friend, force her to live with her in the middle of nowhere where she has no access to public transport, and she can only live next door if she gets a boyfriend.
Sometimes you don't know crazy with money, determined to hold onto their money, until later when they're living in your house. Don't have any sympathy toward them, you've done your part and it's very nice of you what you have done to date, but it's time to get them out with zero remorse.
Rm moved out after I told her I didn't like living with her, in a record 2 weeks because "I don't want to live with someone who doesn't like me"
Tenants also have to hand back property the same as when they rented it. I wouldn't put it past them ripping out porch etc and leaving you with an unfinished property to make good post eviction.
Could we sue them for that
They are in their right to take anything they have done with them so not that part but You can sue for damages but it will be costly, take time, and no guarantee to see any money back. Basically the courts could award you x amount by a certain date but the tenants will probably just ignore it and will cost you further to chase it. Then you will need to know their new address which will need private investigators etc. this is why landlords keep getting shafted as our legal system is against them and pro tenants.
Legal system definitely isn’t pro-tenant.
OPs mother can serve:
Section 8 for missed rent Or section 21 for no fault eviction.
Personally, S8 would likely be the quicker option. The propensity for o ignore notices will depend on the character of tenants.
Did you mean section 8 on grounds of property damage?
A section 8 on grounds of missed rent would be a waste of legal costs... as soon as a nominal rent payment was made.
I'm a LL and the system is heavily in favour of tenants.
This is what I was wondering about the renovations like I was worried there would be no point in doing anything with it because we would likely not get anything back.
1- Stop (trying) to contact the tenants directly.
2- Get a solicitor.
Post this in r/legaladviceUK
I'd like to add she's extremely worried about them somehow trying to keep hold of the house from doing that extent of renovations and going no contact and stopping paying the rent
They have zero grounds to assert ownership so please tell your mum not to worry about that aspect.
They have a tenancy agreement, they have been paying rent - that legally shows they do not own the property and have no right to claim ownership.
Find someone to help with the eviction process, start the section 8 process and go from there.
One step at a time, no point in getting worried and upset about things that have not happened
Bad news I'm afraid. Because they've done the renovations they have a legal claim on the property and will likely be able to seize it from your mum.
Is this true my mum has now spoken with somone and they have said there's no way.
No, not true a crazy thing to say.
Unfortunately it's true. There's a legal loophole.
That’s nonsense.
Indeed. Totally.
Huh.
I guess I better go and rent somewhere for 1 month, paint it, and then I can have a new house.
Who knew it was so cheap?!
Stop talking crap.
Can I just ask, did they so this work because these aspects were faulty? For example, were the windows / door damaged letting cold air in and making their situation unliveable? Have they told your mum to fix stuff and shes ignored them? Because it would explain why they are witholding rent as compensation for the work.
Not that it matters much because if that was the situation, they cant do repairs unless landlord’s agreed to it or before they complained to the council (i think) and even so they cant do these things and not paying rent is grounds for eviction. But that doesnt mean you are a decent landlord who looks after your property/ tenants. And in the coldest winter in the last 15y maybe they were driven to do something stupid like that just to fix an issue thats been ignored.
But theres always two sides to a story and I find it hard to believe that tenants would spend thousands on improvements related with insulation and temperature (windows and doors) and withhold the rent as well.
Something here is not being told right.
Everything they asked she did it straight away new boiler done straight away bathroom leak done straight away Everything was done if there was problems she is a good landlady , they took the little rocks off the walls and painted it two different colours it didn't need that done that's cosmetic, they've added a porch like built a porch on the outside a big one with a brand new door a new 7 foot fence and 7 foot wall around they knocked down the old one it's mostly cosmetic they never asked and it isn't legal
And I'm sorry if it was in such a bad way who the hell spends thousands on renovations on a house that isn't theirs. My mum was always in touch and never ignored them. And if that was the case why wouldn't they just buy cheaper stuff to fix the house up the door looked to be about 700 alone why not buy a cheaper door? None of it makes sense
This was my point. Reading all your comments you did not seem to elaborate much on work/ repairs done. When one is in the middle of winter and reads about doors and windows being replaced, one believes theres an issue thats been ignored. Because no tenant in their right mind would spend THOUSANDS on a property thats not theirs.
I dont know you or your mum. I have my own place but I have been a tenant before with landlords who do cheap fixes. Not saying its your case just saying reading your post theres multiple ways one can look at it.
Dont post things on reddit if you’re looking for blind support. People here have different views and different backgrounds hence why you get different questions and opinions.
If your mum has done nothing wrong and they just spent this money, not only are you entitled to their deposit and compensation to put everything the way it was, but you can simply evict them asap bcs they are also witholding rent.
What baffles me is you went there, took photos, but didnt speak to them or asked them what the hell is going on and why isnt rent being paid or why did they do unauthorised work?
Because that would tell you if something fishy is going on and you’d have more information to put a case together.
My mum took out loans to ensure it was all done properly for them. She charged them cheap rent below market value and only raised the price by 60 pounds in 7 years. Everything was done up to standards, and this what they've done. As for me I have social anxiety and am non confrontational, so there was no way I was knocking .She just wanted to know if they were still there, and I checked for her. As for what you said about the doors and windows say they were in such a bad way they did have to replace them even though they had no problem asking for everything else. Why did they need to basically take gravel off the house paint it two different colours, knock down our front garden wall and put up a huge fence and buy a new gate?
Do you think the may have externally insulated the house?
Thats a question to ask them not me. As I said you came to a forum with a question. You’ll get multiple answers. You can choose to get defensive or to take different points of view and do with them what you will.
As I said and as multiple people said: if they did repairs or alterations that were not agreed upon, not only does your mum have the right to get compensation for damages but also to put things right, in addition to evict them for withholding rent. I simply asked a question, no need to bombard and get overly defensive over a question given you did not provide any info on that topic.
I understand the situation is upsetting but being emotional wont do anything to fix it 🤷🏻♀️
But you were trying to say that my mum was basically the problem by not fixing things your comment was assumptions and obviously I'm going to get defensive about it because she's done everything right been kind and theyve fucked her over. I asked what legal action I could take because they've done renovations and not paid rent you said my mum might of been the poblem. And I would ask them that, but they've changed their number and deactivated their Facebook account. I'm going to guess they won't answer the door to my mum when she goes with a friend too.
Start the eviction process
It's possible they have increased the value of the property
If they argue they are due compensation, they would have to find proof you authorised the renovation, which you didn't.
You should plan for those improvements being wrecked out of spite. Leaving property a wreck should be enough to retain all the deposit .
Get drafting letter an email them. Issue section 8 and 21. You might be in for a legal battle
How big of a leagle battle?
It's not much of an anything ... takes about 3 months... as long as you have all the correct docs and have been a good Landlord....
That’s a question for lawyer
Please please please check the land registry for this property! Check they haven’t committed any fraud on the home ownership; it’s so peculiar to spend so much money on a rental. If the register is all ok, make sure your mums correspondence address on there is accurate so she receives any letters and get a property alert for any suspicious activity…
Good advice; there's an article I linked to which contains more steps as I strongly suspect they are planning this as well.
I would strongly suggest you read this article about property theft as they may be trying to steal the property from their behaviour.
You might be liable for building regs etc too if they didn’t do the porch properly or planning permission. Get some legal advice on it all and get them out.
You need legal advice. As a landlord, I assume your mum has landlord insurance & ideally with legal cover?
A front porch would need planning permission, check with the council.
Not in all instances. Permitted dev can cover certain sizes.
If it changes the front aspect the permission is mandatory, cost me 8k to find that out!
Does your mum own the house outright? (sounds like it) worth getting the title deeds checked that they've not changed the deeds on the house. It's just the amount of work they've done on the house sounds a lot of money.
Sounds crazy but it has happen in tenanted properties which are owned outright.
How would they change the deed if my mum has the deeds on her. Wouldn't you need proof of ownership of the deeds to change it?
Sorry I meant land registry details. Re proof of ownership, they can steal an identity first
Yes we have checked land registry is in her name
Total aside, but some people have expressed how this situation is weird - but with the housing crisis and family’s not able to get onto the housing ladder I’m not surprised this sort of situation would start to come up.
Not to excuse it, but people are getting desperate - and now the irony is now they will need to find somewhere else to live.
Reminder to all LL’s - do you know where your physical deeds are ??? If not buy one from the government.
Yes my mum has them on her safe
Total aside, but some people have expressed how this situation is weird - but with the housing crisis and family’s not able to get onto the housing ladder I’m not surprised this sort of situation would start to come up.
Not to excuse it, but people are getting desperate - and now the irony is now they will need to find somewhere else to live.
Sorry solicitor all the way legal letter they have shown they are avoiding contact
Have you checked the land registry to see who owns the property? I know you think your mum does but is that what the registry says? I’m not trying to BS you, go check now.
Yes, she paid and checked. I just don't understand why they would spend all that money and not ask for premisson. None of it makes sense
Some people aren’t wired up properly.
Go to citizens advice and get free advice. Serve section 21 and section 8 notice. Apply to courts for eviction. Job complete.
They cannot claim the property under adverse possession if the occupants have ever acknowledged the owner. That is if your mum took over after the death of your nan and made any payments or otherwise acknowledging actions. I suggest your mum collate all this evidence right away because actions like replacing door and adding a porch are the kind of improvements that would be undertaken by someone planning an adverse possession order and used as evidence to support the claim. I believe you can contact the land registry and put a block/registered note on the property to preempt any attempts to submit claim forms. Side note, they might try and make a claim using another family member of friend so be conscious if documents submitted or interactions don’t add up with previous/expected contacts.
As someone else has stated you need to gain entrance and check that things are in order. Give notice and record the visit confirming that the heating and hot is functional. Bring a digital thermometer that so values can be picked up on camera. It could be that they’re just planning on riding this out by saying you’re not providing basic utilities as a means to argue against rent and eviction. They can draw this out for over a year if they play it right, if they just happen to be sick every time the court case is due and they claim a lack of utilities the whole time. Took my dad over a year to get a drug dealer out of his house once.
Only thing I'd add to the excellent "how to evict" comments is to check the land registry and see if they've tried to change/claim ownership.
Update me
What a sh*tshow. Your poor mum
So they literally thought they were just given a house for free. Start legal proceedings and get them out on their ass as soon as possible. Who the fuk do they think they are. Totally taking advantage of your mam. Would make you think: would they do the same if it was a 35 year old 16 stone, 6”5 man that owned the house.
First thing I’d do is ring a solicitor and ask if it’s legal to go down and replace the locks on the house so ye still have access. Then get a locksmith to do exactly that. Then go and buy a bucket of paint and repaint the outside of the house to whatever colour you want without even asking them or letting them know.
I know it’s not legal but I’d that the door and get them fucking told in no uncertain terms to start paying the rent or things will happen, I’ll get down voted I know but sick of these maniacs just ripping the piss. especially as your mum is not over charging etc!! I’d say a lot more but can’t be arsed with the do gooders on here.
Sounds like they are squatting. Call a lawyer ASAP.
So... They've been there for 7 years, and in that time they've paid out of their own pocket to improve the property, likely increasing the value by considerably more than the cost they've paid for it which you/your mum benefit from.... And you're annoyed about it? Your mum might own the property, and be profiting from it, but they wanted to make their HOME look nicer?
What in the landlord from hell, tory nonsense is this?
This is my mums family home? I spent my childhood there she rents out her one house and she's a tory lol. If you bothered reading the post why exactly would they spend thousands renovating a house that is not theirs. For starters, most landlords don't allow you to paint, but my mum said they could paint and make it a home inside. They renovations only started last year. I asked the neighbour who I've known since I was child. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO ASK FOR PERMISSON its not their home its my mother's house they rent it and they have concreted a porch and knocked down a wall changed the door and other stuff. they have also blocked my mother and stopped paying rent. My my mum charged them only 480 for a 2 bedroom house almost 300 below market rent and let them make it a home inside and they reward her with going no contact and not paying rent and just doing what they want to the house and I'm sure they will want to be taking their expensive renovations with them.
^(very sorry about your situation and I hope it gets resolved swiftly, but as a gentle heads up, it's permission instead of premission)
Changed it thank you
Are you high? A renter has absolutely no rights to make structural changes to a home that isn't theirs without permission. The house may look nicer to the renters, but it might not to the owner. Even so, this was a family home which may have sentimental value. Your lack of appreciation and respect for someone else's property is disgusting to be honest.
Just get a locksmith and change it back.
The tenants have every right to change the locks - only caveat being that they should change the locks back to the originals before the end of the tenancy.
This does NOT entitle the landlord (or landlord's family) to change the locks while the tenants still have the legal right to live in the property.
Jesus Christ do NOT take this advice!
Do not attend the property to change the locks
I didn't think this was the correct thing to do
You can’t just change the locks unless the tenant has given permission, other than exceptional circumstances. Definitely not as part of evicting someone. Far better to stay within the law as a landlord.