Updating post from Reddit.
To give you a short backstory I have recently moved into a flat (top level of a 2-story house) in East London with my partner - it wasn't fully explained to us (and we stupidly didn't ask) that both the gas and electricity are charged through a prepayment meter, the traditional type where you have to physically take your gas/electricity card to the shop over the road (and pay in cash might I add).
Obviously this is a bit annoying - not only this, but we failed to set up the card in our own names/account when we first moved in and just used the existing card that was there - we have paid in £90 on the gas card over the last 3 weeks and only have £20 left as a lot of our money has gone towards a debit balance which we only just figured out this weekend. We realise this is our mistake and we're not expecting that money back.
So when I spoke with OVO on the phone about our gas card, they recommended us a smart meter. Great I thought, this will make things easier (we have already had the lights/gas go out on us once since being here) - we'll at least be able to keep a track of our usage and budget somewhat accordingly. But when I suggested this to the Landlord she downright refused giving us a number of reasons why, but the main one being:
- It is a leasehold building - she cannot make certain changes without first asking permission from the owner of the whole building, and they would not permit a smart meter (apparently as it's quite an old building there are a lot of strict rules in place?)
Could there be some truth to this? Our lease states the following:
3.10.2 (Utilities) - Not to tamper, interfere with, alter or add to, the installations or meters relating to the supply of such services to the Property and not to permit the installation of any pre-payment meter.
But also when I looked online I came across this from CIA Landlords:
What does .gov say as of March 2023 about smart meters?“Consider having smart meters installed. Smart meters can help you keep an eye on your energy bills and make changes to save money. If the energy bills are in your name or you prepay for your energy, you can choose to have smart meters installed, though you should check your tenancy agreement first and let your landlord know. If your tenancy agreement says you need your landlord’s permission to alter metering at your property, they should not unreasonably prevent it. Smart Energy GB has independent information about the benefits of smart meters for tenants and how to ask your supplier for the installation. If your landlord pays the energy bills, you can ask them to have smart meters installed.”
Can anyone offer insight into why the Landlord might not want a smart meter installed even if it is free and will only help the tenants live more comfortably?
Do I have any rights to go back on her refusal? We would like to go about things amicably.
Your landlord cannot force you to keep the same energy supplier.
If you were to change to a new supplier who requires you to have a smart meter, you would have no choice but to have one installed...
They can’t force you to have one though so that doesn’t quite work.
Some suppliers have smart meter only tariffs. As the customer and tenant you're entitled to choose one of these.
What law entitles this? If the landlord says no it’s a no you can’t force them because of a tariff.
I’m with OVO and moved to a smart meter for my electric.. and I really wish I hadn’t . It’s been no end of hassle from the day after it was installed. And with OVO you have to wait a fucking age for an appointment if something goes wrong with it unless it’s left you with zero electricity. Im currently having to top up via the app and then enter the long number on the meter.. kinda defeats the purpose but they don’t care
Can I ask why?
I wouldn’t change to a smart meter either. As soon as they did my bills went up by a fair bit. In my other property I have an old meter and don’t plan on changing it.
exact same thing happened to me, bills doubled at the exact point the smart meter went in
But if your bills had been based on estimated amounts, it is possible you weren't paying enough this happened to me as the property I bought no-one seemed to put the boiler on, so the gas bill was tiny, obviously when we actually used it we ended up 100s behind due to estimations (they only read the meter once in 4 years)
>I wouldn’t change to a smart meter either. As soon as they did my bills went up by a fair bit.
That's not the fault of the smart meter...
You’ll be surprised that it is.
Funny how they are pushing smart meters so much
And just saying from my experience.
What about your smart meter made your bills go up then?
Do you work for EON?
No.
Answer the question...
There is literally nothing about a smart meter that makes your bills shoot up overnight, that's entirely about the tariff YOU choose to go onto.
😂 why are you defending smart meters so much or getting offended.
Have you got one? Or had a old meter upgraded to a smart meter.
All new Smart meters are more efficient it’s common sense. I work in the electrical industry and can say it’s a common theme.
I completely disagree. A mechanical or smart meter just counts the number of units used then you get billed. There isn’t some conspiracy that smart meters lie then count more units than people have used. Can you imagine the uproar it would cause if this found to be true? People would be after the energy suppliers CEO with their pitchforks. Those guys are already multimillionaires without having to dwindle more off the everyday guy on the street. Energy suppliers are making more than enough profit as it is.
Main reasons for your bills going up would be estimated read then you got the smart meter which gave you accurate read. IE you were way underpaying before. Or could be winter came and your usage went right up. Or went on to a different tariff. Or could have a fault in your home causing you to use more energy. Lots of reasons. I got a smart meter and it made zero difference to cost. I then used it to help me save money by learning which devices use the most power and not using them as much. However, you could just use a smart plug energy meter to do this instead (about £20 to buy)
I was meant to get the gas changed over with them too and promptly cancelled the appointment after all the hassle with the electric one 😅
All meters are accurate to within the same standard. Smart meters do not incorrectly read usage, this has been proven time and time again.
There are independent standards the meters have to adhere to and pass metering tests against.
The terms of the lease say you should not permit the installation of any pre-payment meter, but there's a pre-payment meter installed?!
Yeah...there's a few other terms on the lease that don't apply (stuff about the change of septic tanks etc). I've a feeling the agency have found a lease template and not amended it for this specific property...London estate agents?
I think that's a common factor of all estate agents. Another common one is clauses around keeping the garden tidy, when there isn't one.
If your landlord won't let you have a smart meter, is there any chance of going to a regular meter? At least then you wouldn't be paying the higher energy costs of a prepayment meter.
Also, is there no way of showing the energy company the details of your move in date, to get your initial payment credited to your account, rather than against the previous tenant? You have the date you moved in, and the purchase date of the top up.
We asked Ovo to do this, we have dates/times/receipts of our top-ups, but they said they are unable to pull any data from the meter as it's not a smart meter! Probably doesn't help that we haven't got an account set up with them yet either.
Is it an old property? Interesting discussion on the OVO forum.
Interesting...as far as I'm aware the tenants in the flat below (same building) do not pay for gas via prepayment meter as I cannot see another gas meter out front, although there does seem to be 2 electricity meters in the indoor hallway. Will have to look into this.
Good call to establish what the other folk have. Pre-payment is archaic and expensive. Hope you’re able to resolve the issue satisfactorily.
Just do it. Those pre-payment meters are horrendous.
So I think I'll try and add some points to see if they help.
It sucks for sure, you've asked, they've provided reasonable reason why not, it's not ever going to be a good relationship if you take further steps, though you can always enquire for more detail but it's not your right, so don't start stating that with your landlord/agency as you'll simply get eachother wound up.
Given it's a prepayment it could also be quite an old setup so you may find that an energy company would want to do more works at the same time
The energy companies don't care, however they will make you confirm you have permission to undertake any works, so you'd have to lie to them too if you did it anyway (and they may check/seek assurances).
Unfortunately you have an agreement with your landlord Your landlord has a leasehold property The freeholder has terms (if we believe the landlord) that prevent this
You may need to just suck it up and then move later on.
If you pay for your own utilities, the relationship is between you and the supplier.
Prepayment meters are being phased out in favour of pay as you go smart meters. They are not the same as billing meters - still require you to top up in a pay as you go fashion - but you can do so online or via an app. You don't need to get cash out and go to a paypoint/payzone/the post office.
Are you sure your supplier isn't just offering you a pay as you go smart meter, rather than a billing smart meter? They wouldn't normally offer new customers on key meters a billing meter right from the start.
As suppliers are phasing out key meters, there may soon not be a whole lot of choice regarding getting it replaced. They are pushing to upgrade meters ASAP. And if it's just a question of upgrading from key to smart PAYG, it's really not a big deal. It's still a top-up meter.
This was also my understanding - hence why I wasn't sure why the Landlord isn't keen.
The supplier did also recommend a billing smart meter but said we would need to change over to a smart meter before that could be installed anyway.
Ask the landlord to provide information in writing about the supposed limitations to the property that prevent having a smart PAYG meter installed.
Or wait until you receive a letter stating that the key meter must be replaced, then show that to the landlord.
If this requires the smartmeter to connect to a network dont hold your breath. About 20% of installs dont connect and become dumb and the suppliers - BG and EDF in my case - dont give a stuff
You don't need to tell me about it. I manage utilities for a large housing provider.
Doesn't change any of the above though.
Landlord might just be a consoiracy theorist lol I did smart neter canvassing for a major scottish supplier in summer between uni terms. Some of the reasoning behind installation refusals were utterly insane lol afaik, since you're the consumer, it's your consuner right to have the meter type you want, even if renting, unless a technical reason prevents the installation, which would be determined by the engineers doing the job rather than landlord.
Don't blame him tbh, as he can't get it changed back. It's a permanent change. And one many want welcome.
Many will eventually regret their own decisions to get one, when in hey future their electric as charged on the same concept as their Uber journey.
It's not the landlord's property though
Edit: I was until recently a Landlord. It is mad how parochial some people can get. The meter belongs to the energy supplier, always has, always will. You can put whatever you like in a tenancy agreement, it will be an unenforceable clause. Sometimes people just need to understand the regulatory framework we live in, and stop just thinking MINE MINE MINE
Yet it is attached to the landlord property.
And can not be rectified.
I'm not going in to the rights and wrongs, I'm saying he has a perfectly viable point.
He doesn’t get to have a say.
Yet there he is, having a say.
I guess he should have included the energy bills in the rent then.
Lol, yes he could have increased the rent to get include them.
As the other commenter stated, the meter doesn’t even belong to the landlord. The contract is between the tenant and the energy supplier, the landlord can voice an opinion but nobody needs to listen.
edit: to the hateful cretin that i’m replying to that blocked me, i hope you evict someone for that so you can get dragged through the courts.
Then evict.
You could always buy your own property. Then you can do what you want to it.
Just want to add onto this that during winter you can simply not get sick, follow for more life hacks
Also heating water in a kettle can be used to make warm drinks like tea, coffee and hot chocolate
The handles on doors are used to open the door, thanks for coming to my ted talk
Thankyou. I didn't know that!
Can I also recommend choosing to win the lottery if you don't have the required funds right now. Massively helpful when buying your own property.
When did you graduate from Oxford?