Updating post from Reddit.

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QUESTION
Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago
Help! Will I be a landlord?

So, my dad lives abroad and owns the house his sister (my aunt obvs) & her husband live in but wants to gift it to me for IHT reasons & he can no longer get house insurance due to where he lives. The occupants don't pay rent but they do pay all bills and any repairs needed, there is no tenant agreement and it is a given they can stay in the house for as long as they need which could be 20+ years. Question is, if there is no agreement and they don't pay rent, am I their landlord or do they just live in a house I own? What obligations do I have in this situation? Any help would be really appreciated.

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Posted by Fullmoon-Angua 2 weeks ago

I think it would be best if this arrangement was finalised with solicitors involvment by your dad before he gifts it to you. If there is nothing in writing already then you need to protect yourselves against them trying to assert squatters rights in the future.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

Thanks for the input, just had a look and they've been eligible to claim squatters rights for a few years already!. They're both special needs which is why they can't have the property themselves but I think an agreement is in order.

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Posted by Fullmoon-Angua 2 weeks ago

Than that adds an extra sense of urgency. Ask your dad for any communications between him and them just so that copies exist. It would be a shame for your dad's generosity and humanity to be taken advantage of.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

Yeah, I'm not worried about the occupants trying anything but it wouldn't be hard for someone to take advantage of them. Seems I have a lot to learn in a short time.

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Posted by PetersMapProject 2 weeks ago

What exactly about this situation makes you think that they'd be able to claim squatters rights?

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

They've lived there for nearly 20 years and never paid rent, they are welcome to stay as long as they're alive. I just looked it up quickly and saw you can claim squatters rights after 10 years? I'm totally ignorant of all this stuff, never needed to know as I never thought I'd have another property.

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Posted by Fullmoon-Angua 2 weeks ago

It's complicated. It is dependent on whether the actual owner has ever asserted their own rights during that time (e.g told them what they can and can't do etc.) and whether they the occupants have basically made every decision (edit: unchallenged) with regards tot he property as though they were the owners. In your own case without knowing anything else about it, then it's obvious you need someone actually qualified to look over the situation, not just us randos on Reddit. Gather every communication you can from your dad to the occupants over the years and seek qualified legal opinion is your best bet.

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Posted by PetersMapProject 2 weeks ago

That's one of the conditions of claiming adverse possession - the proper name for squatters rights. 

Another condition is that they must have been there without the owners permission. 

Based on what you've told us, they are not eligible for squatters rights.

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Posted by Fullmoon-Angua 2 weeks ago

Hence the need for communications to ensure that it can't be claimed in future that was a criteria that was met. Better to have your ducks lined up before you need them than wish you had.

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Posted by JorgiEagle 2 weeks ago

That’s not how “eminent domain” works in this country.

There no such thing as squatters rights.

Eminent domain is actually very difficult to claim, since one of the steps they have to take is to write to the owner of the property and ask if they’re okay with this.

All it takes is for them to say no, and it’s pushed back another 20 years.

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Posted by smith1star 2 weeks ago

No such thing as squatters rights for quite some time. It’s illegal to squat in a residential property.

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Posted by PetersMapProject 2 weeks ago

Someone will probably suggest that not paying rent means that they are excluded occupiers. In your case, the obligation to do repairs is enough to tip them into the category of being tenants. 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/occupiers_with_limited_security/excluded_occupiers#rent-free-accommodation

It's a white elephant in the short term and a valuable asset in the long term. 

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

Cheers. Do you think this gives me other obligations as a landlord? Sorry if it seems a daft question, I literally have no idea about any of this.

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Posted by PetersMapProject 2 weeks ago

In a nutshell, yes you do have those obligations.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

Oh, thanks, I have a lot of reading to do.

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Posted by IntelligentDeal9721 2 weeks ago

And if you are outside of England you may also need to register and do the training courses etc. Also it wil be you to make sure the house has a valid gas safe certificate and EPC etc.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

The asset will be a bonus in the future but my aunt is special needs and we promised my Grandad we would look after her just before he died 20 years ago so that's my main consideration at the moment. I'm just totally clueless as to my obligations in this situation. Definitely think some sort of agreement needs to be done though.

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Posted by Fantastic-Change-672 2 weeks ago

Good luck getting them to sign it. Is there any way you can just not take over this property? It seems like a time bomb?

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

I don't think it will be a problem getting them to sign, they are family and I'll get it signed before I take ownership or it's a no go. Problem is my dad lives in a country which isn't officially recognised by the UK government so he can't even get insurance on the property at the moment.

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Posted by Fantastic-Change-672 2 weeks ago

Renting to family is even worse. I'd steer well clear of this because it's an absolute minefield.

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Posted by McBUMMERS 2 weeks ago

This needs going down a more formal route with paperwork to protect everyone involved and the asset in question.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

There seems to be a strong consensus here! Thanks for the advice.

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Posted by Careful_Adeptness799 2 weeks ago

As already said get it legal or it could be a big PITA for you. In 20 years all sorts of repairs could be required and you need legal protection to be saying no they pay not you. All you want at the end of the day is the house when they move out and no hassle.

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Posted by Historical-Hand-3908 2 weeks ago

I would be a little concerned as you state your father can't insure the house because of where he lives abroad. If there is someone living in the property with the owners consent Public Liability is a must because if the roof collapses on them, as one example, it could cost a small fortune if they claim. They might accidentally cause the house to burn down. You need to be insured.

Charging them a token £1 per week would give you better legal protection. Whether they are there as guests or as tenants your liabilities are the same when it comes to the 'occupier' cover.

It's very important you obtain INDEMNIFIED legal advice ASAP.

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Posted by Asperchoo 2 weeks ago

Thanks, I think this is the root of the urgency. I know some landlords have been disparaged in the press lately but you guys sure have a lot to deal.

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