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This is an unexpectedly speedy update from my previous post yesterday
I got an email from the estate agent saying the tenant has been offered a house from the council. The tenant is currently one month's rent in arrears, with another month coming up next week. The council will re-home her only if I agree to using the deposit for the outstanding arrears, and if I forgive the next month's arrears that will have accrued by next week. Essentially, the tenant needs to be arrears-free to get offered a new place.
I'm worried I'll be screwing myself out of a month's rent, but also have to pay for whatever damages are in the house (plus cleaning), which now couldn't be covered by the deposit. I've seen the recent inspection and there was stuff everywhere. It looked like pure chaos.
On the other hand, the tenant will be gone.
Alternatively, I could continue with the section 21, with my solicitor thinking I'll be able to get her evicted before Christmas, and then try to reclaim unpaid rent through the courts.
Pretty sure I know what I should do, but just wanted another opinion
Thanks
I would want to see the letter from the council and confirm with them that they are actually going to re-home her without the eviction as this seems completely different to normal practices. It could just be the tenant is telling the EA this and it's not true
Yeah, I did this. Thank you for the advice. Glad I posted here.
I think the council offered her a place but the EA / tenant came up with the solution to be arrears free
Get it in writing from the council they will re-home the tenant.
And the move out date signed by her/council.
And take the offer and run.
If your solicitor can legally evict the tenant before Christmas from the courts and baliffs., I will personally pay the arrears that are owed.
They is basically 0 chance of it happening in the next 6-9 months let alone before Christmas.
Take the offer.
This pretty much. I would like to believe the council found them a property. But the mandate is to keep you subsidising tenants as long as possible as it saves the council money. So I am skeptical.
I am concerned about the timescale from when they will move out though. If they are gone within a week thats pretty perfect. I reckon they will be there a few more days (weeks?) though. You will have too forgive that too.
If they are out soon, you can refurb and relet. Or sell? Better to have your property back and make money again.
Your solicitor just wants more income from you or is naive if you have told them about the council offer. Dont cancel S21 just in case.
When they are out, can chase for damage to property.
I know local councils near me have a policy to not social house tenants that are in arrears or have had problems paying the rent.
Basically eviction caused by rent arrears.
They classify this as intentionally becoming homeless.
It could be a similar case for OP council.
It was the EA who told me about the council housing. Yes, the timeline seems shirt, so I asked for it in writing. With a condition they I'll only forgive the arrears if she'll move out on time. Let's see...
Maybe. I think they, in the countryside, courts and bailiffs just aren't very busy. For example, I got the possession order from the judge after a single day. I've heard it can take weeks or months in cities
But I asked for it in writing. Will update after I get a response
Do you think the tenant has money/assets to go after? Getting the judgement for rent arrears is easy, but if they've got nothing you still aren't getting paid. Are you happy getting £5 a month for the next 20 years?
I'd just cut my loses, have them out and have it back on the market asap. You lose a month and refurb, or you lose 6-8 months plus eviction costs you'll never recover. There's not really a situation where you come out on top so its about mitigations now.
I know. You are right. I just hate getting fucked over. I took the advice here and will forgive the arrears if she has moved out - but only if she moves out as agreed
Currently waiting to go to court as s21 has passed. Our tenant hasn’t paid in months. If this is a genuine offer (you have spoken to someone at the council yourself and have it in writing from them) take the offer.
It is far better an offer to have one months arrears and a messed up property than being months in arrears, the tenant still in place (as it takes around 6 months to evict if not more) and a messed up property. That deposit will be pretty meaningless at that point.
I have done this. I asked for it in writing. Will update when I get a response
Thanks, I took the advice. Will let you know if it works out...
An interesting point would be what is the stance of taking councils to court for loss of money. You are effectively doing the non paying tenant a favour at a loss of advice provided by councils.
No duty owed by the council to the private landlord, because they are not exercising any power. They are simply asking you if you would agree to do something, and in theory you as the private landlord are agreeing to it of your own free will.
They’ve not said you can’t pursue for damage, only that she can’t be in arrears and so they’re asking you to give a discount for one month and take deposit for the other. It’s a tick box exercise for their end.
You can still raise a claim for damage, there just won’t be any deposit left and you’d need to use the money claim service.
You will certainly not be getting g the tenant out before Christmas and if I were you, I’d take this offer - provided it is cast iron, property available and you have a fixed end date.
I'll ask my solicitor about filing for damages. It's a good point.
Get something in writing from the council. anything you respond with needs to be headed "Without Prejudice"
Inspect asap re damages, and potentially agree a repayment agreement for those - so its amounts owed but not arrears.
Id probably take the deal at that point, yes you are down, but potentially less than it may get to, and a bad tenant is gone with minimal fuss.
It really doesn't need to be labelled WP. Small claims court judges have so much leeway in evidence. They can completely disregard WP communication.
What they actually do and what they are permitted to do is often quite far apart in small claims. If you are negotiating offers that could leave you out of pocket, it is still a good idea to make it clear that the communication is without prejudice, to protect yourself later.
In the worst case scenario where without prejudice correspondence is incorrectly used against you in a small claim, you have the option to appeal any decision arising from it. In the scenario where there could be several thousand pounds worth in dispute, why wouldn't you be explicit?
The tenant hasn’t paid for nearly two months, and is about to go into counsel housing. Even if you’re awarded it in full by the court, I’ve no idea what gives you the impression they can or will pay as per a court order.
They’ll get a CCJ sure, but at best you’ll get the money back over a long time under a payment plan paying not much per month (if you get it at all), and that’s on top of costs of all this (some which will be recoverable, but again an order to pay doesn’t create an ability to pay).
Best to cut your losses imo, it’s the least risk with the most certain outcome and doesn’t incur opportunity cost of being unable to rent out your place.
If your tenant doesn’t have any money, getting a court order for back rent will be useless.
In your case, truly one in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.
Take it!!! This is a great offer! Barely a months rent missing in exchange for stopping s21 proceedings without further cost or delay and you get your property back. Why are you here even discussing this, surely there is no question to consider here?
And god knows maybe they're telling the truth and you will help put them in a council place which is nice since they seem to need it.
Is it really likely they're telling the truth? IME the councils are the ones helping the tenant play the system at landlords' expense.
I think the main incentive is to get the property back and earning. I seriously wouldn't care about 1 month of rent if I was in the situation of having to evict and facing non payment without access to my property for potentially up to a year.
Yeah.. this is the conclusion I have arrived at. I just want it over. Hate being fucked around though - feels like I've been legally screwed over
By “play the system”, what do you mean?
No. Do not trust the council. They will play you for the fool. It sucks that I've had to say that about a branch of government. Carry on with your path, do not falter.
I asked for a conditional letter that I'll forgive the arrears only if she moves out by a certain date
There will very am acceptance letter from the council to make them responsible for her housing. Request it. It will likely include accepting her current accommodation as temporary accommodation. This is all good for you. Worse case scenario you are stuck for a year with no rent and court costs if council was not involved.
I asked for proof from the council. Let's see
Feels like I'm paying the council's costs though
I wouldn’t accept that. Tenant should use family, friends for such things.
Oh I agree. But apparently she has none. The court allowed her to pay back the court fees at 1 pound a month for 45 years. So, it feels I won't get much money back anyway
Ok, as someone who works in a LA’s housing and homeless department, this is an extremely weird offer from the council. The authority where I work would under no circumstances offer this as if we were doing you a favour: it smells fishy. Definitely get it in writing from the council before agreeing to anything the estate agent says.
I suspect the council offered her a place, but the tenant / estate agents came up with a suggestion to make her arrears-free. This was their solution
Sounds it. Get that confirmation from the council and call your managing agent out.
As others have said, make sure you get something in writing from the council. If you do agree to it, make sure that the deal is conditional on the tenant moving out by a certain date. If you agree unconditionally to forgive the rent, then the council can just turn around and say "oops sorry their house fell through and we don't owe you anything because you already forgave the arrears".
Yes, this is why I've done from the advice if others here. Let's see
This is odd. I would question what you are being told, by all parties. Eviction by Christmas seems fanciful. You can’t make good decisions on bad advice.
Maybe. The house is outside a city though, I presume just a lot less busy. I got a response from the judge for the possession order after a single day! On the internet, ive heard it takes months usually
I mentioned they would probably not be able to be homed by the council if they stopped paying rent. It sounds like that has just clicked for them and they are trying to resolve the situation personally. I would speak to the EA about who contacted them as my theory would be that the tenant did to make the first offer to fix their mess. If I’m right you could negotiate and press them first. There is no reason the council would be housing them if they aren’t receiving housing payments as well. They are just trying to get out of it with a free months rent. I’d definitely pull back a little harder as frankly you can ruin their financial life as much as they will ruin yours.
Yes, I have the same thought. I pressed the estate agent to give me more evidence about what the council said.
For clarity you’re saying the tenant is asking you to forgive month 2 rent or is the council asking? I’m assuming tenant is asking that would essentially not mark them as an in arrears tenant
Yes, exactly
We are under section 21, going through hearings ( adjourned again as landlord hasn't provided the information the hearing wanted , even though they had 2 months after the first hearing, but I digress ) the council will not home us until we have a firm eviction date...if that helps?
My guy just wants to sell up, we have been here 17 years , no late rent, no parties, no loud music, get on with neighbours. I get it, the market is rubbish, the house has been up for auction for over a year now, no offers and price hasn't dropped, the place hasn't had any modification since well before we moved in, but would have no problems if he did it up and charged us more but, hey, it is what it is.