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Hi all, I’m in need of some legal advice regarding a lodger who I asked to move out. She stopped paying rent and has ignored all communication, so I shortened her initial 30-day notice to one week (as she paid rent weekly). Her behavior became increasingly hostile, and last Sunday, when she came to pack her things, she also stole household items, decor, and money. I’ve reported the theft to the police and changed the locks.
She and her family came early to pick up the remainder of her things (kitchen items), and when I didn’t open the door, her father started kicking it, trying to break in. I had to call the police, but they arrived after the family had left with her things. The police are treating this as a civil dispute, despite me reporting the theft.
Now, I feel unsafe in my own home. After recording unpaid rent, damages to the room, lock changes (including key copies), and stolen items, her deposit doesn’t cover the costs. Can I legally charge her for the lock change and key copies, given that it wouldn’t have been necessary if she hadn’t robbed the house? Also, can I charge for the cost of replacing the damaged furniture, including delivery, assembly, and disposal, as these costs wouldn’t have existed if she hadn’t trashed the room? We had an inventory in place with photos.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Did she sign the inventory off? I would cut my losses on this one as if you were to pursue this it with the hostility you’ve already seen it may not be worth it!
She didn’t sign the inventory, but it was sent to her via email, and in the document, I mentioned that if she didn’t respond, it would be considered an agreement with what was outlined. For context, she’s caused me over £900 in expenses—from changing the locks to replacing furniture and dealing with stolen items. Her full deposit is £850. I’m not trying to unfairly withhold her money, but I also can’t afford to cover these costs myself. It’s frustrating that I may have to, given how much she’s already cost me
Take the deposit and then for £50 just cut your losses. It's less than 6% of the damages. Being a landlord even when it's a lodger situation rather than tenent has costs associated with it. While lodgers have less rights if they ever take you to small claims court over deposit deductions who ever is deciding the case will judge it along similar lines to tenancies and deposit schemes.
From what you've said, you have a claim to the whole deposit. You didn't have to send her deposit to a DPS since she was a lodger too, just tell her it won't be returned due to all the damage and missing items.
Send a very clear list (recorded delivery so you have proof it was received )
Itemise all the damage, show deposit does not cover full amount
As others have said for £50 I wouldn’t chase her! But state matter closed however if any further contact is made, she or parents return to your property, or harass you! Then legal action will be taken!
I’d suggest a doorbell cam would be clever
Bro, you cannot be serious, for £50 your asking for legal advice? If you have everything documented properly r.e. deposit and expenses then she isn't going to try and sue you for her 850 and if your trying to sue her for £50, you seriously need to chill, thousands in lawyer fees for a round of drinks?
I’m not concerned about the £50. I’m seeking legal advice to ensure everything is handled properly and to avoid any further issues with this person, who appears to be quite unstable
Then you need to word it in that way, your looking to seek an order to stop her coming near your premises and/or yourself... that isn't clear because you keep referring to money.
Until she or someone related to this incident actually causes damage (after her leaving the property) then your unlikely to get anything... she came back for her stuff she left in the apartment/house and you refused her entry to gain her property, in the eyes of the law, your in the wrong... they always side with the tenant... if you didn't want her coming back you should have served her the correct notice papers and advised of a date of removal, anything left behind will be thrown out etc or charges a storage fee is applicable where you live...
That’s not how it happened. She came on Sunday and picked up most of her belongings. During that time, she also stole several items from the house. After that, I decided to change the locks, as I didn’t want to allow someone in my home who was continuing to steal from me. I informed her via email, giving her the opportunity to collect the remaining items—some food, a few mugs, and drinking glasses—the following day, which I planned to leave outside for her. She arrived half an hour earlier than agreed, so the items weren’t outside yet, and she began banging on the door. At no point did I withhold her belongings or refuse to give them to her. However, I wasn’t going to open the door, as I was concerned for my safety, especially when she was aggressively trying to break in. I believe that’s a reasonable reaction.
If you decide to change the locks then it's your choice.
No one else will pay for it.
Ok, got it
I don’t know any landlord that didn’t keep some or all of the deposit after a tenet left…
From a sample size of how many?
Enough to warrant a law to protect tenants.
You own the house?
You can afford it.
That they can afford it doesn’t make it right does it!
It really does suck that the mentality of people we live amongst is like that post that everyone is entitled to steal from anyone slightly better than them. Some wealth is unjust but most people work hard for what they have and then you get someone freeloading life or living through bad decisions and possibly addictions/mental health but we seem to be pushing towards a community of people who think it is right to be that way and do whatever the hell they want. I worked in retail around the time things were switching to the mess we see daily. People just walk in load bags for free and walk out. That large retailer has now gone bust with something like 2500 jobs lost but its okay because we started to accept theft as long as the people are richer (it really does have a trickle down effect, of those 2500 majority will be struggling to feed and afford a roof with the job losses). It would be nice if people started to live a loving thy neighbour's attitude to life.
What a strange post.
Tenants are slaves of landlords. Not slightly worse off.
No one has justified stealing.
Large retailers thrive when small ones go bankrupt.
Shop lifting might be immoral but doesn't cost jobs.
Very little wealth is actually earned.
You literally said “you own the house, you can afford it”… not all tenants are “slaves” of landlords at all
Shop lifting does cost jobs (as well as creates some others) and certainly raises prices for everyone.
Utopian dream I know but imagine how much better all society would be without just theft and theft adjacent crimes. How much more we could do with the money and resources that takes up.
The greed of landlords is a big part of the economic collapse of the UK... People pay so much rent theres no point working.
You don’t think that wealthy landowners have always done that? - have a read about the housing conditions mining families had for example. And that the primary reason for change is globalisation
Its not just immigration, its the aging population.
Most of the DWP budget is non means-tested pensions for pensioners, a quarter are millionaires and don't need the money.
SOCIAL care costs are bancrupting the local authorities. The Boomers use of the nhs has destroyed it..
Slave
noun
a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person.
Landlords are not forcing tenants to work for and obey them. Yes you pay them rent as a tenant but you also have the freedom to agree a tenancy in the first place. If you dont want to be a tennant then dont sign the contract. There is literally no slavery involved. Shop lifting does cost jobs when done to a point shops have to shut which a lot of them are so not sure why you think it is just immoral. Your last comment is highly inaccurate i had nothing when I left school and went out to earn wealth. A lot of people I met in the same boat all went out and did it. Now this isnt major wealth its enough not to need to rent. But along the way I and the others had to rent. Only the individual can push themselves to earn enough not to need to pay rent. Property ownership is not for everyone and even having a roof over your head is not for everyone. There are a lot of homeless people who cant for mental reasons live confined to a building. You did justify stealing both in your original post and the fact you call it immoral. You realise how many people are stealing from all retail large and small daily, it is an eye watering amount of thefts and its now down to the shops to manage it as police have classed it low priority. The only things that people should have a right to steal when in dire financial situation should be food (italy for example actually allows for bread to be taken when in financial difficulty). The post was more of a vent how people are joining this movement of blaming everyone but themselves and just generally being acceptance of the menaces we are all becoming. Everyone needs to start self disciplining more as this is all it is (a lack of discipline).
Lol, slaves of landlords, never heard that before. Shop lifting makes things more expensive for the rest of us, and those most adversely affected are the poor who struggle to pay for things. I suppose it dies create jobs in having to have more security guards. Maybe you see this as a positive?
You sound like an absolute fucking moron.
Please Keep it Civil
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
I actually can’t afford it right now since I’ve been unemployed since February after made redundant. I understand being a landlord comes with costs sometimes but I shouldn’t have to cover costs for someone who has purposely not paid rent and damaged my house
So how did you pay for it?
Stfu scumbag. Literally living off someone elses wage. You should be locked up. Also if you changed the eviction notice period and changed the locks it's your fault they had to kick the door in to get her stuff.
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
Scrounging fucker
Get the police involved for the theft, and sue her in small claims court for the value of your loss.
It’s not protected just keep the money they have blatantly taken the piss.
If the furniture is older you can't buy brand new furniture to replace it. The rest seems reasonable.
I would keep on at the police to make sure they see this as a crime. Make a complaint etc.
Do you have evidence of any of the crime?
Yes, I understand, and I agree that it’s fair to say the value of used furniture isn’t the same as new, but at the same time, I wouldn’t need to buy any new furniture if she hadn’t damaged what I already had. So, while the cost may not be the full value of new items, it’s also not zero, as that would ignore the losses. Regarding the theft, I didn’t witness it directly, but things have gone missing since she moved in, which had never happened before. I wasn’t the only one in the house, and after she and her sisters left, everyone noticed the missing items
I'm telling you the legal position when taking money from deposits. You can't gain room it, only be made whole.
Sadly it doesn't work that way - if I rent out a house with a 65" TV and it's three years old and a tenant smashes it, I can only charge for the depreciated amount for the TV. So expected lifespan maybe 5-8 years for a modern TV (if well treated) so 5/8th of the value at best as it might have lasted 5 years. Yes I've had to spend for a brand new TV but thems the rules.
It's worth pointing out you don't have a deposit scheme to keep this on rails and to force you to follow this approach but if it ever went to court the depreciation route will be in your favour as acting reasonably.
Right, I understand. Thank you for explaining. I see why things are handled this way, though in some instances, it doesn’t seem entirely rational
If she's caused £900 worth of damage and her deposit was £850 then keep the deposit and write off the £50 - it's not worth pursuing her for that and you're unlikely to get it back anyway in view of her attitude.
This is what I was thinking. I’m not really concerned about the £50 at this point. I just wanted to ensure that, while I know the deductions I’m considering are reasonable, I also wanted to check if they’re legal
I had a slightly similar situation where a lodger had totally trashed the bed and mattress, Luckily the cost of replacement was about £50 short of his deposit, so I just gave him £50 back - he never questioned it.
SpareRoom has the following comments about lodgers' deposits which you might find useful: https://www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/deposits-and-lodgers/#:~:text=A%20deposit%20is%20essentially%20a%20sum%20of%20money%20paid
Changing locks is not a deposit charge.
Additional keys is not a deposit charge.
If you've replaced furniture "old for new" instead of "like for like" that is also not fully a deposit charge.
If this is challenged through a protected scheme, you'll be having to pay it back. I'm assuming you haven't protected it as they were a lodger.
What is actually the amount you claim it's costed you, and what is actually chargeable?
Then ask if it's worth the additional aggro and aggression to try and get it back..
I understand, and I’m happy to cover the cost of changing the locks if it’s not something I can deduct from her deposit. Regarding the furniture, would it be reasonable to charge her half the price of the item that was in the room, rather than the cost of a brand-new replacement? She’s caused me about £900 in damages, while her deposit is £850. I don’t want to keep going back and forth with her and create more issues—I just want to resolve this. But at the same time, I can’t afford to cover all the costs associated with her stay, and while I’m trying to be fair, I’m also losing money because I’m unable to replace these things right away. Her behavior has put me in a difficult and unfair situation. I’m not focusing on fairness, but it’s definitely frustrating. Thank you for your advice
What would it cost to replace like for like?
How old wasn't already?
If it's not protected, I'd be inclined to keep all of it, as partner it would cover rent and it can be done with.
But you're still being really vuage about what the losses actually are. You're quoting the same number as you did including the locks for example.
The losses include unpaid rent for the week, stolen decor from her room, such as wall art, and a destroyed chest of drawers that can no longer stand upright—something that wasn’t an issue when she moved in. She’s also taken various knickknacks from around the house, including diffusers, vases, and similar items, which add up to around £100. On top of that, she left her room in a terrible state, so I need to charge her for a cleaning service. Additionally, she stole about £25 of communal money, which we usually use for cleaning products, and that was actually another lodger’s money. The chest of drawers was around £100 and was maybe a couple of years old.
How old were the knick knacks? If they were 5 years old they will largely be depreciated.
Same for the chest of drawers.
Same for decor.
Communal money may be legally treated like a joint account anyway.
Cleaning agreed.
If it's not protected, then you'll have less of a problem, but expect some degree of harassment potentially. I had significantly more severe damage after a tenant (not lodger) left, and his response after leaving was:
harassing me via text
getting someone to pretend to be a legal firm taking action
get his mum to call
come to the street I met him to drop off keys, and knock on every door on the off chance I opened and he "caught me" where I lived
This was after I provided an itemised list of about 2k in damage for an £800 deposit. And he didn't know where I lived.
Legally, if it's not protected, they won't be able to get representation worth taking you to court.
Morally, you should account for depreciation I guess, but also they've been a bellend. So they lose their right to expect you to sort it all on your own time for free.
Pragmatically, they know where you live and have already been a twat. You're firmly in the "fuck around and find out" area. If they've already tried to kick in your door for.. I don't know what? What else would they do to get back nearly a grand?
The knickknacks are new, at most a year old
Is the deposit protected? If so you need to be able to prove those things are new
Deposit isn’t protect… some of the things I’ve got receipts for in my email but for some others I don’t
If it's not protected, you're fine. It's not worth the hassle of taking you to court, and they aren't rhe typenofjpeople to do that anyway by the sounds of it.
They sound more likely the kind who will come and kick the door in if they want to contest it.
Just keep the deposit, since there's no DPS scheme involved and this reflects your real losses. Its unlikely they'll drag you to small claims court, since the case is complex. Equally would not pursue the £50 through the courts.
You can insist the police record the crime and give you a crime number which would allow an insurance claim... assuming the only uncovered loss is £50 I wouldn't bother because of affect on premiums and value of home. However if you are taken to small claimscourt by the tenant having made the report would probably help you.
First off get a door camera and something which is recording continuously.
If they come back video record it on your phone from a window
What is this stolen furniture lark. You've not been specific whatsoever.
Be sure to anomalously warn all other landlords in town with a room to rent.
I was thinking to do this but got no idea how to go about it. Any ideas?
New email address from a fresh browser, and keep it short, 'red head j.p 23 was a poor choice in a room mate'