Updating post from Reddit.
Rates of 33% to 39% being tested as Treasury source says tax-raising plans are in ‘complete disarray’
The UK is going to become a place where not to come and do business it will become a place to get taxed and see nothing in return
Why try to be successful for your family if the government will just take it 🤷
Yes losing the plot. High tax no service. They are making is realise that we’re slaves and not hiding it now
If the tax is to high my boss is not going to think
"Oh I should accept that loss that I could avoid simply by just sending the stock directly from the manufacturer "
This really could close many UK jobs as we don't make anything from scratch. we are a nation of assembly now ...
Why assemble in a nation with high tax and now more workers rights 🤔
Not even assembly. The economy is more than three quarters service based.
A nation of Starbuckians and Poundlanders.
Three quarters?
Dam imagine what would happen if people stopped ordering junk food 😳
I envisage a massive brain drain, where anyone with skills who is prepared to work will leave as its not worth staying in the UK.
I've seen a lot of land for sale in Europe, nice price and the planning laws for building a house are so simple , very tempting, honestly never thought it before but now it really is looking like the better option
Except if you don’t have an EU passport it’s much more challenging for you to go over there and buy that house and live in it.
My wife is European , I have the cheat codes unlocked
Even then, you’re going to need a job and mortgage there to be able to afford to buy and build, most banks aren’t offering mortgages for EU property financed in the UK, at least not for us everyday mortals.
I have the funds. There is literally nothing stopping me my only tie is my elderly mother and that I can't leave 😞
> most banks aren’t offering mortgages for EU property financed in the UK
I bought in cash but I was talking with BNP about a mortgage in France. They were fine with it. Plenty of banks are ok with it, you just need to have a decent income.
They need to fill the Big Black Hole somehow. But instead of reducing the comfort of scroungers and people who contribute nothing to society they'll tax workers harder. Brilliant plan, let's see where it gets them.
The "big black hole " was 22 billion
They literally just spent 22 billion on co2 caputer tech , by borrowing more money .....
We produce 1.1% of the world's co2
That 22 billion hole could of just been paid off 😳
Instead, we are now paying to capture India and china's co2 ........ while taking money of the poorest and weakest , this is not right
It's all a big scam, it's just a shame we can't seem to do much about it. Those in power no matter who they are always seem to fuck us over
They fuck us over and enrich themselves. They're all bastards.
Co2 capture means burying it underground or selling it to the oil industry randomly
Not everything is about your family. The rest of us need public services and good quality homes, as well.
Nope family first every time the government's can't be trusted will our tax money , every single government has proven its happy to endlessly waste it
I presume you do not use roads, rails, public healthcare, education or any other taxpayer-funded service, then. Or rely on the services of any other person who does. I also presume the members of your family do not, either.
Otherwise, it would be a bit shameless to rely on these things for your own prosperity while trying not to contribute back to them.
I am intending on leaving the UK in the next 4-5 years I am paying tax until then
You can enjoy the fruits of everyones labour for me I am sure the government and future government will make the UK a beautiful place full of wonder and joy 😊
Don't forget to close the door after you
Close the door ?
Currently I don't think it's closed mate
Enjoy
Can't see this lot lasting long
it's impossible to wrestle out of the claws of the government once they have it.
10 years I reckon. Tories aint getting bsck in thats for sure.
I wouldn't be so fast theres plenty of time for them to piss even more people off , we haven't even seen the budget yet , let alone 9 more....
Net zero and energy ratings will be a huge hit on every one keep hitting people in the pockets , they soon get mad
>The wealth tax is paid by about 350,000 people and is levied on the sale of assets including second homes and shares but at significantly lower rates than wages.
I'm not sure I see the relevance of comparing to wages. If you earn 50k over 5 years in wages, you'll be under the threshold each year and pay no tax. If a house goes up in value by 5 years you'll be taxed on that 50k in one single year. If they want to compare it to wages then they should divide by the amount of years the asset was held.
I always thought they should do cgt calculations based on how many years held and yearly inflation etc. its a really unfair tax system in my opinion. Like someone could have bought a house for £20k in 90s that is worth £500k today but have to effectively pay tax on £480k growth but some of that would have been natural with inflation surely so why are they stung for that part of the growth. £20k in 1990 is apparently worth £57k in todays money so the gains in my opinion should be somewhat on £443k not £480k using my figures plucked out of air. Even then it is an eye watering tax you might as well keep the asset and mortgage it then do something with that money. Cgt is effectively watering down someone's networth and potentially destroying growth in this country.
You don't pay CGT/social charges if you've held the asset for 30 years in France
That is cool but france has some high taxes like inheritance tax doesn't it? Again another tax that is kind of unlawful.
>Again another tax that is kind of unlawful.
Please expand?
Basically you work hard all your life and if you are not in the know about trust funds etc (majority of the rich educated skip inheritance tax this way) then the government can take this via a hefty tax.
The majority of people at the low end but have an estate that meets the inheritance tax bracket probably don't know they can possibly avoid it via setting up a trust fund and living 7 years. So you find it's only the top wealthy people who can avoid it and everyone else is stung.
You are taxed when you buy goods, taxed when you sell goods, taxed on your earnings then taxed at your death. Where is our modern day lady godiva?
What's your point? You want a lower tax, lower service, less socialist society? Or you want a different distribution of taxes?
I've subscribed to a few different sub Reddits that are discussing tax right now.
What is universally true is that everyone thinks that the tax they pay is unjust. And that they would easily be able to find efficiencies that mean we could pay less tax and have better services.
I'd suggest perhaps we're struggling because everyone is selfish and delusional?!
Stop being blind the wealthy get off from paying taxes but we all got to pay at our end of the scale. Where is the fairness in that. Yes taxes go on public services but it also goes on mates ppe companies that end up in landfill and other ventures that us tax payers have no say in. We are blinded by so much misinformation and lead to believe that raising taxes will fix our situation. We have no growth anymore the system is set up to make us all poorer and effectively we could end up being an overly controlled country with such a big wealth divide. Although the wealthy have threatened to pull out of investments and living here if they are hard done by in the budgets. End of day our taxes have been mismanaged for decades and now we are to foot the bill for that and push mental health issues further on us all. Taxes are not unjust but raising them when we can all see is an unfair system where is the right in that. We will never see an improvement in services by improving taxes as it will just be squandered on more rubbish. Time and time again we find stories of how politicians make big profits of decisions they make via these dirty decisions and we all just shrug it off. I'm not happy with the way our taxes are spent and really it needs an overhaul.
>I'm not happy with the way our taxes are spent and really it needs an overhaul.
So what's your plan?
We killed our own growth by voting for Brexit. We have an ageing population. Decaying infrastructure.
It's obvious that more money would help the NHS. You can't deny that more money could hire more doctors to reduce the waiting list, for example.
Nor do I believe that every arm chair expert could do a better job of managing our public services.
We need to have a grown up discussion about what kind of country we want to live in. Unfortunately our politicians only care about getting reelected in 5 years time.
I didn't see any growth prior to brexit. People have been using that as an excuse for too long, there was a reason people voted for that. It was sold as a pack of lies to fix the stale economy of our country. We had already been feeling the pinch prior to brexit. We have been in a bad way since and before the tory government. Hs2 what a big mistake that was again was an idea by labour prior to tories giving the green light. That money and investment could have fixed so many public areas. There isn't a fix for this mess as most of the world economy is having it tough but creating such a divide is only good for the wealthy. I think politics needs to be split up further and allow all councils to make decisions based on the areas they look after. I think there is a lot more that can be done for growth and bringing in money then just taxes but that doesn't fill pockets for the corrupt.
Inheritance tax is a weird tax. You were already taxed on that money once, and now you will be taxed again for it being used to help out your kids. In many cases, people are forced to sell their childhood homes to pay the tax, which they view as wrong. And you only pay it when you've just lost someone.
I understand the justification for inheritance tax. But it is the worst tax imo. Property tax, wealth tax, capital gains tax, and income tax all make a lot more sense.
People like inheritance tax when it is applied to wealthy kids that they view as undeserving. But when it applies to normal families that maybe just own their own house and some other assets, it can be a bit more disheartening. There are tax-free thresholds that even this out a bit though.
'You were already taxed on that money once' is such a weird argument.
Every transfer of money is taxed. When earned by a company, corporation tax. When they pay their workers it's taxed again, via income tax. When those workers spend it, VAT.. Why should it be different when inherited?
Those are transactions. Inheritance is not a transaction. It's more like a gift than anything else, and gifts aren't taxed.
It would be insane if gifts were taxed. That would really stop families helping one another out. Inheritance is just a more formal type of gift in a lot of ways.
Gifts are transactions, just they only go one way. They aren't taxed because it's not practically viable to tax them, and they are difficult to track - but that isn't true for inheritance.
You're wrong, they're not transactions. You can argue that an inheritance tax is justifiable, but not because it is a transaction.
Theft, I say!
It does have inheritance tax but it has some amazing tax relief schemes if you know what you're doing.
That is how it used to work a while back It was matched with income tax but had an inflationary adjustment relief applied to it depending on how long you held the asset.
Then things were simplified to remove the inflationary adjustment but drop the rate to a lower flat rate.
True, inflation needs to be taken into account.
It isn't for wages. This is people's issue, earned income is treated less favourably than other income.
It is absolutely wrong that Rishi paid a lower percentage of tax than me, not even a higher rate earner although not a bottom end one either.
The real issue we face is demographic and equality. Inequality leaves a lot of money in few hands that will never spend it. Demographic issues mean we have a lot of old people in poor health, often due to obesity or lifestyle choices who cost a fortune in health and social care with very few workers to support them.
Now you can't solve the demographics overnight, and the only way to put a plaster on the issue is immigration but birth rates are the crux of the issue. The inequality one you can solve but unless without exit taxes and other nations playing the same game you just lose out anyway.
Due to these issues and the unpopular solution to both, successive governments just come after middle earners more and more each generation until there's nothing left.
>It isn't for wages. This is people's issue, earned income is treated less favourably than other income.
Not recently, but look at salaries in 2000 compared to 2024, and you'll find they rose dramatically so inflation did have an effect.
CGT is a tax on inflation
Here's the thing. You work 8+ hours a day five days a week making minimum wage, you've put in labour. You brought a property as an investment, you do nothing and it still gains money.
Every other investment comes with the risk of losing money, but we act like housing shouldn't. If you think owning property to rent out should only continue adding value, then you should pay taxes for it equivalent to wages for it.
Second homes are an investment equivalent to shares and they should be taxed such. It wasn't that long ago that rent was cheaper than a mortgage. It's nuts that it's now more expensive than a mortgage.
House prices can and go down. Look at the crash of 2007. So the risk is real. Tenants can stop paying rent, so there's also risk there.
>You brought a property as an investment, you do nothing and it still gains money.
Actually I didn't buy as an investment, I had to move overseas and didn't want to be priced out if I returned, so hung on to it. In real terms it hasn't made any money. If I wish to return to the UK I need to live somewhere. It's not as though only my house has gone up in value, all houses have. Personally I'd be financially better off if houses hadn't gone up in value.
>If you think owning property to rent out should only continue adding value, then you should pay taxes for it equivalent to wages for it.
The comment you replied to addressed this. If you want an equivalency to wages. Then you calculate the increase each year and tax on that. You wouldn't tax an employee in one go.at the end of 5 years, they's be massive out of pocket if you did. 50k increase in 5 years. So all things being equal it would be 10k a year, you then apply the personal allowance for each year. That's if you want an equivalency to wages.
I remember the crash well, and it didn't hit house prices that much. It was nothing like the early 90's crash. I was renting well before and after the 07/08 crash, my rent still went up. Despite the property being less valuable.
And I'll say keeping a home here so you don't have to do the same ladder again, is an investment. And you're still renting it out to make money?
Or do you think we should view you as not so bad as you might one day come back from living and working abroad, so obviously you just have to rent out?
I like there how you also ignored how I said it should be tied to taxes for shares, which get taxed based on growth once cashed in. And let's be honest, with rents going above mortgages it should.
Back in the 80's rents were cheaper than a mortgage. And that's the way it should be. You own a property that's only going up in price, you shouldn't make extra money just because someone needs a home, and has been priced out of the buying market.
Back in the late 80's/early 90's you could have a 5-10k deposit on a three bed house in the south east. Now you need 60k min for a one bed flat. House prices have gone nuts compared to earnings.
Property prices fell around 35% in real terms in the 2007 crash. In my home town they fell 50+% in real terms, and still aren't above 2007 in nominal terms today. I believe London recovered in nominal terms by around 2012.
2007 was a big crash.
The average house price dropped by about 15% in 2009. https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=1960-01-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2020-02-01&lang=en
There has only been one significant drop in average house prices in 60 years. 2009 might have been the biggest, but we need to be realistic that house prices do not drop in general.
"then you should pay taxes for it equivalent to wages for it."
That's what people are saying - you wouldn't be, unless you divide the capital gains over the term held.
What people also forget is that the investment into housing has already in a lot of cases been taxed when earned, and they've paid stamp duty etc on the transaction. It's just layering taxes onto taxes.
Well the other thing about wages is they are paid on exchange for actually doing something.
If you just hold an asset and it gets more valuable, you've not actually done anything useful, just profited off of good fortune and having more wealth to start with.
It’s the best they could come up with
You're literally getting free money for nothing, trying to compare it to someone grafting is at best dishonest & more likely just a mud throw of tax them rich guys, not me with me 5/10/20/50 houses ....I'm not rich
Brilliant move! Time to reduce liquidity and instead cause more issues in the property market!
People will swap (are already) to buying properties in ltd companies not personal names. There’s then no CGT, but would be corp tax, and then drawings via dividends.
I might not have this spot on here, but there will always be a workaround by accountants. Given, it’s more costs to setup and doesn’t help those with properties in personal names.
The problem with this is that there will be CGT if the company ever sells the house, which basically pins it to the rental market forever, likely at a substantial discount to buying an actual property free of CGT liabilities.
The company cgt rate is ~20% so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say
Ltd companies property disposals are taxed on profits through corp tax not cgt
No they Arnt.
Just look on the Gov.uk website under - corporation tax when you sell business assets
Do you have a link ?
Search
Gov.uk - corporation tax when you sell business assets
So, no one will sell. They'll rent out.
Good for the rental market.
Good way to drive house prices even more!
Tax it at 40% but allow inflation to be deducted from the gain as part of the calculation - so you are just taxing the actual gain, not the inflation
Just because the price of something doubles over 20 years, it doesn’t mean you’ve actually made a 100% gain in real terms, you’re more likely up 30% in real terms… taxing the whole gain is just taxing inflation
Sort of like how the income tax brackets are linked to inflation. Oh wait...
Stop making sense .
By what inflation metric though? Capital gains doesn’t just apply to a single asset class which makes applying an inflationary index difficult. Making tax more complex helps no one but the tax advisors and accountants.
> At present, individuals must pay 24% on gains from residential property that is not their main home, 18% to 28% on gains from carried interest if they manage an investment fund and 20% on gains from some other assets, according to government guidance.
Of course for some people they may have had to move overseas or another part of the country for work or family reasons. In which case they may be paying rent themselves, and renting out their old home. So they can be both a tenant and landlord. If they simply own a single property why should they pay any CGT at all?
Why does the article say 24% CGT on 2nd homes. It's 18% for basic rate tax payers
Anyway they should do something to the tax free allowance (12,570) for non residents to this country !!
It’s 18% for basic rate tax payers and 24% for higher rate.
It was 10/20 plus 8 for residential but they lowered the extra property tax for higher rate.
> Anyway they should do something to the tax free allowance (12,570) for non residents to this country !!
I'd rather they didn't! I've been using that since 2011.
Communists. We all know who Britain belongs to.
They got rid of Indexation allowance. They reduced the Capital gain allowance, They got rid of lettings relief, they freeze the personal allowance, restrict interest relief. At some point its going to be the last straw and we will just have to start to revolt.
Own nothing, and be happy. Agenda 2030
What a bloody incompetent inept shower this lot have turned out to be!!!!
WTF.
Tax free wrappers for me . ISA and pensions, no GIA.
BTL sales will take a massive hit . I already paid loads in cgt this year after selling BTLs.
Gonna listen to my in laws and move to Australia
Good fuck all landlords with a rusty pole
This is a community for Landlords. You can be anti-landlord in other places like /r/HousingUK/
Who is going to house you?
Who will fund your benefits?
Not on benefits, the state or I buy my own house, easy, nationalise housing rn
Don't have much sympathy for CGT on 2nd properties. It's nowhere near as risky as starting a new business, and it's really just a way to concentrate the wealth to an ever decreasing group of people.
Won’t happen. They are leaking the news to test the market and the market did not react positively. Any major increase to CGT will be a disaster for investment in this country